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3240 URO LOVER 3240 3240 UROKEEPER 3240 UROKEEPER Sahells Mom 3240 UROKEEPER 3240 |
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3240 View Profile |
Message To: Blake258 In reference to Message Id: 2019452 Lets play nice
Yet putting a 28" Egyptian Uro in a 6’ to 8’ enclosure is OK according to some of these same folks? Or a 16" Mali in a 4’ x 2’ enclosure? Humans evolved eating meat. Kind of a silly discussion. Meat has more calories/energy than veggies and many evolutionary scientists believe that this gave us an edge over our ancestors. It allowed the energy necessary to support a large brain. Today a vegetarian can go to the grocery store and buy as much subsistence as they need. Try surviving on veggies in the wild. After a few months I bet you’d be throwing that stone age spear at every four legged creature within sight. |
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| 06/10/09 01:56am |
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URO LOVER View Profile |
Message To: URO LOVER In reference to Message Id: 2019546 Lets play nice
LOL i think after 5 month in the wild u’ll find out that its hard to hit anything with your spear , and start growing corn.. |
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| 06/10/09 02:41am |
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3240 View Profile |
Message To: 3240 In reference to Message Id: 2019553 Lets play nice
The point is that meat (animal protein) is nutrient dense. Human beings wouldn’t have evolved on a vegetarian diet. A nutrient dense, high protein diet, is what allowed us to evolve to what we are today. Today’s modern conveniences, such as grocery stores, allow us to sustain ourselves on a vegetarian diet if we choose to do so. This wasn’t possible way back in the day. Think of the energy required to gather and eat enough vegetable matter to sustain oneself back in the stone age? No farms, no grocery stores, just you picking berries. I’ll eat deer, racoons, rodents, insects, whatever. You let me know how you’re doing watching the corn grow, especially in winter or times of drought. One deer has more calories/energy than all the corn that you can possibly eat and/or carry. Let’s head off and have a contest for the rest of the year. BTW, you’re not allowed to bring any seeds. It would be cheating! LOL |
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| 06/10/09 03:30am |
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3240 View Profile |
Message To: 3240 In reference to Message Id: 2019555 Lets play nice
Uros live in harsh environments. They will eat insects on occasion as food can be scarce. Insects are a nutrient dense food source that can help them get by. Not preferred but sometimes necessary. In captivity we can provide them with a proper vegetarian diet that does not require that insects be used as a supplement. Insects aren’t needed in captivity and aren’t a preferred food source in the wild. There’s no reason to feed a captive uro any insects at all. Will it hurt if you throw a couple of crickets in the cage every week or so? No. But it’s a bad habit to get into as a few crickets will turn into a few dozen and health becomes an issue. I don’t recommend any insects be used at all. |
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| 06/10/09 03:38am |
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UROKEEPER View Profile |
Message To: UROKEEPER In reference to Message Id: 2019555 Lets play nice
Quote: Yet putting a 28" Egyptian Uro in a 6’ to 8’ enclosure is OK according to some of these same folks? Or a 16" Mali in a 4’ x 2’ enclosure?
My Egyptian Enclosure will be 12x4x4 or 12x6x4. I think even this is small. typically Egyptians range from 18-24 inches with some reaching well over 36 inches. so when I tell people to get their Egyptian out of the 75 gallon and into a bare minimum of 8x4x4 I am taking into consideration 4 times length and two times width. 2 foot Aegyptia should have absolute minimum of a 8x4x4 and that is very small enclosure for it. comparable to a 12 inch mali in a 4x2x2. My adult female mali’s are each in their own 6x2x2 they are 12 inches and 14 inches and this I believe to be small. They can never get enough space. My dream is to make full room enclosures for each, however space is limited until I move...That is why I have decided to build my Aegyptia Enclosure for now. Personally I believe the minimum for a smaller species should be a 6x2x2. Anything under 12 inches I believe bare minimum should be a 4x2x2. Let me emphasize that the bare minimum is not that good.We should all try and do better. Yes we all keep our uro’s in "bathrooms" however some bathrooms are larger than others and better setup. I have always been one for larger enclosures. |
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| 06/10/09 07:01am |
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3240 View Profile |
Message To: 3240 In reference to Message Id: 2019581 Lets play nice
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| 06/10/09 11:07am |
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UROKEEPER View Profile |
Message To: UROKEEPER In reference to Message Id: 2019656 Lets play nice
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| 06/10/09 12:32pm |
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Sahells Mom View Profile |
Message To: Gotzilla In reference to Message Id: 2018632 Lets play nice
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| 06/10/09 03:59pm |
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3240 View Profile |
Message To: 3240 In reference to Message Id: 2019822 Lets play nice
Modern info. There’s no good info on this species. The studies are very limited. Exactly, 1% - 2% bugs. According to you these comes from plants that they consume. Are you sure? How do you know? You don’t think they’re exposed to parasites when consuming plant protein or living in burrows? The 2% of insects consumed are parasite free? How many species have been studied? When does gout and kidney failure set in? 4% insect protein? 6% insect protein. We have no idea. So in times of drought a Uro doesn’t grab an insect? But they happen to go nuts when a cricket is thrown in their enclosure in captivity. They’re survivors and will do what they need to do when times are tough. You really believe otherwise? As I said earlier there’s no need to feed uros any animal or insect protein in captivity as food is plentiful. There aren’t any drought or shortages when a uro is kept in cage. Insects are clearly not an ideal food source. "Now, I really hate to be the one to tell you this. but the USDA allows 3% rat feces in any product that is considered "for human consumption" in the United States. " What does that have to do with this topic? Lat I checked some of the latest, most serious, salmonella outbreaks have been vegetable related. Have I stopped enjoying a good salad? No I haven’t, how about you? You want to be grossed out. Read some recent studies of bacteria that you’re exposed to on a daily basis in your home. Yet we seem to do just fine. Why would Reddawg feed a salad to lions in captivity? That’s a silly argument. "We as humans are true omnivores. Therefore, we tend to want the rest of the world to be that way too." What! Are you saying that we want uros to be omnivores because we are? That’s a good one. Very convincing. "Get over it! Uro’s are solitary herbivores! And eat less bugs in the wild than you do in your kitchen." Yes they are herbivores. Amazing. We eat more bugs in our kitchen than uros do in the wild. Wow, they must be really, really careful out there. AGAIN, in captivity they should be fed strictly a vegetarian diet. |
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| 06/10/09 04:34pm |
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UROKEEPER View Profile |
Message To: UROKEEPER In reference to Message Id: 2019834 Lets play nice
Quote: in captivity they should be fed strictly a vegetarian diet.
agreed...food is plentiful and there is no need for insects. healthier protein can be obtained from vegetable sources in captivity. why risk a pets health. I also agree with 3240 that some may decide to eat insects only to survive. why feed insects in captivity when they are not needed? |
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| 06/10/09 04:56pm |
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3240 View Profile |
Message To: 3240 In reference to Message Id: 2019850 Lets play nice
"This is absolutely correct. Uromastyx do not need insects to thrive in captivity. Scientific studies in the wild have shown them to be primarily herbivorous. I have been keeping and breeding them for 11 years and only fed insects to gravid females and then I also have fed none at all to gravid females and still had good success in hatching three species. Danny Molco’s studies have done a good job of showing what their diet is really like in the wild. From the studies I had previously researched they eat from 6 to 0% insect matter(depending on species). There is also the argument that they eat them accidentally when on plant matter. However some species do seem to eat them more eagerly than others. Adult Egyptians seem to show virtually no interest, but a small number will. So you can be rest assured that by not feeding them insects that they will still thrive. People will also say that if they don’t need them then why do they eat them? It is because they do have a survival mentality that when times of drought and food scarcity they will seek them out. So when they encountered in captive life they will eat them. This doesn’t mean that they are good for them however. Even bearded dragons are overfed insects when one looks at their diet in the wild compared to captivity. studies have shown adults eating up to 90% vegetation. I wouldn’t feed insects anymore than once a week or even every two weeks to uromastyx. I don’t think a small amount will affect their kidneys although it surely is possible. I have taken in some who had advanced gout that was most likely brought on by excessive protein consumption. a few factors can be brought into play that contribute to kidney disease such as a lack of hydration, lack of natural sunlight (or high UVB bulbs) and overfeeding protein sources." |
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| 06/10/09 05:05pm |
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