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 #2187036


Pbcrazy187
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 My false water cobra

here is a picture of my little false water cobra.



does anyone know how often this guy should be shedding i feed him 4 fuzzies every 5 days i have had him two month and he has only shed once



11/12/10  05:18am

 #2187193


Chris H
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  Message To: Pbcrazy187   In reference to Message Id: 2187036


 My false water cobra

I have not personally kept these but I know that they have a very low LD50 rating so be careful. Also if you don’t mind me asking, is that scar from a snake and if so, what kind? It looks like a fasciotomy scar and you should find a better doctor, there has never been proof of a case of compartmentalization requiring a fasciotomy in a snake bite, it is just impulsive doctors that have never dealt with a snake bite before...



11/12/10  09:51pm

 #2187306


JEFF QUARLES
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  Message To: Chris H   In reference to Message Id: 2187193


 My false water cobra

I was gonna ask the same thing Chris..Really pretty snake though



11/13/10  04:35pm

 #2187476


Flherp
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  Message To: JEFF QUARLES   In reference to Message Id: 2187306


 My false water cobra

I would not dismiss all fasciotomies out of hand. In the event that the swelling is unresponsive to antivenom, elevation and mannitol, and the intracompartmental pressures remain elevated (which is possible), surgery may be considered. The alternative is the potential for loss of the affected limb. Thankfully these complications are exceedingly rare - perhaps a few instances per thousand. Fasciotomy is very likely overutilized for a variety of reasons - misplaced fears or lack of familiarity with antivenom are two of the most common.

As for the FWC- while they are technically venomous, for practical purposes they are not dangerous (despite a few reports of injury associated with this species). The toxins in the Hydrodynastes cause swelling, in some cases quite severe swelling. These are readily observable, but not as dangerous as other toxins found in colubridae - i.e., those that cause neurological or cause hematological disturbances.

The LD50 is merely a tool to gauge the relative toxicity of toxins - there are various methods used to obtain the information that can alter the resulting data, making comparisons of venoms fraught with error. There are also various real world factors that must be considered when making these comparisons that are ignored by most people when having this discussion.



11/14/10  04:17pm

 #2187536


Pbcrazy187
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  Message To: Flherp   In reference to Message Id: 2187476


 My false water cobra

hey yes that was from a snake bite. about a year ago i got tagged by a great basin rattlesnake. i will bump the original post for you



11/14/10  11:12pm

 #2188053


Chris H
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  Message To: Flherp   In reference to Message Id: 2187476


 My false water cobra

@FLherp, I have spoke with a few medical professionals that are experienced in snake bites and every last one of them said that they would rather take the infinitesimally small risk of losing a limb to compartment syndrome than have a disfiguring fasciotomy. If you want to be absolutely sure, ask your doctor to take a Stryker tonometer reading and only perform the fasciotomy if it reads 30mm/hg or higher for more than 2 hours. I don’t know the hole story with this case but I am willing to bet that the doctor didn’t wait 30 minutes before administering a fasciotomy, it is usually the first thing that is done to a snake bite victim other than administration of antivenin.

As for toxicity, I shot an email to Dr. Bryan Fry (the venom doc.) and he stated that the venom was comparably toxic to a canebrake rattlesnake (which is arguably the hottest of the crotalids) but that the venom delivery system was insufficient to deliver a fatal bite unless it is allowed to chew on you for some time. So don’t let it chew on you!



11/17/10  08:46am

 #2188086


Flherp
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  Message To: Chris H   In reference to Message Id: 2188053


 My false water cobra

As I said, there are instances in which the fasciotomy may be used - after other measures have failed. There are a small number of cases in which it might be used to the benefit of the patient. More antivenom, elevation and mannitol can relieve some of the pressure caused by the swelling, but there are cases in which these measures do not work. In most cases in which fasciotomy is used, there is no direct measurement of intracompartmental pressure. There is usually a hand surgeon consult and visual diagnosis, nothing more. There are a fairly small number of physicians with any profound experience in dealing with snakebites on a regular basis. While I would agree that fasciotomy is an overused treatment, that is not indicative that it should never be used.

The LD50 of canebrake and FWC may be similar, however the amount of venom produced and effectively injected by an FWC is considerably less than a canebrake - the result is that it is not a clinically significant venomous species. Ask Bryan or Wolfgang Wuster if they think this should be considered a venomous colubrid with respect to regulation and the answer will differ considerably. LD50 is a much abused and very relative scale.



11/17/10  12:33pm

 #2188220


Chris H
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  Message To: Flherp   In reference to Message Id: 2188086


 My false water cobra

That is almost exactly what I said in my last post.



11/17/10  07:33pm

 #2188285


Flherp
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  Message To: Chris H   In reference to Message Id: 2188220


 My false water cobra

It also reiterates what I stated in my earlier post - i.e. I would not dismiss all fasciotomy as unnecessary, although it is likely overused. If every species that produced venom were to be considered venomous, despite inefficient delivery and volume produced, the number of species that might require regulation would climb precipitously. It is more important to consider the clinical significance of the species in question. So we have stated the same thing three, now four times. Perhaps that is enough.



11/18/10  06:26am

 #2188475


Damion930
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  Message To: Flherp   In reference to Message Id: 2188285


 My false water cobra

Nice snake man and wow u guy r to much lol u. Figure out who’s is biger yet



11/19/10  04:29am

 #2190407


Pbcrazy187
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  Message To: Damion930   In reference to Message Id: 2188475


 My false water cobra

hey guys i made it to the hospital by 11pm on a thursday and the doctor decided to do the fasciotomyat 10pm friday night. the doctors wanted to send me to california to the venom ER but i guess they decided not too



12/01/10  04:14pm

 #2190411


Pbcrazy187
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  Message To: Pbcrazy187   In reference to Message Id: 2190407


 My false water cobra

also since you guys seem to know alot about venomous snakes. It likely that i could have more of a reaction to the false water cobra because i have been bit by a rattle snake.



12/01/10  04:18pm

 #2190414


Flherp
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  Message To: Pbcrazy187   In reference to Message Id: 2190411


 My false water cobra

Maybe, maybe not. The venom is likely fairly different, i don’t think there is too much similarity between the venom of colubrids, viperids or elapids. Similarity of activity perhaps, but not necessarily structural similarity.



12/01/10  04:22pm

 #2190542


Chris H
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  Message To: Flherp   In reference to Message Id: 2190414


 My false water cobra

every persons body reacts differently to each venom. It is impossible to say how bad your reaction would be. I have heard that many times that people will build up an allergy to the venom but on the other hand, I know of people that bit 12+ times by the same snake because they go to the snake handling churches and they are still around (perhaps unfortunately).



12/02/10  08:13am

 #2190552


Flherp
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  Message To: Chris H   In reference to Message Id: 2190542


 My false water cobra

There are people who are atopic; they have disporportionally severe IgE mediated responses to allergens. This may yield systemic allergic reactions or allergic reactions in parts of the body not in contact with the allergen. Some allergic hypersensitivity may have a genetic component.



12/02/10  10:32am

 #2194733


Adamy
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  Message To: Pbcrazy187   In reference to Message Id: 2187036


 My false water cobra

is that scar where it bit you



12/28/10  12:00am

 #2195268


JEFF QUARLES
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  Message To: Adamy   In reference to Message Id: 2194733


 My false water cobra

You’re killing me!



12/30/10  05:48pm


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