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Agama Jon q JEFF QUARLES Jparker1167 Shiftylarry Agama TJP JEFF QUARLES TJP Agama Flherp TJP Amphibiandude Agama Amphibiandude Agama Cod4 Cod4 Agama Amphibiandude Agama Amphibiandude Agama Agama Amphibiandude Agama Amphibiandude Agama Amphibiandude Agama

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#1855396

Agama
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Top 10 most venomouse snakes

fierce snake

common brown

taipan

eastern tiger snake

reivie tiger snake

beaked sea snake

western tiger snake

black tiger snake

death adder

western brown snake

09/09/08 02:10pm

#1855915

Jon q
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Message To: Agama In reference to Message Id: 1855396

Top 10 most venomous snakes

you can kick half of that list out. what about the mamba?

09/10/08 05:55am

#1856067

JEFF QUARLES
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Message To: Jon q In reference to Message Id: 1855915

Top 10 most venomous snakes

That list is DEAD right little Jonny. The Mamba doesn’t even make the top 14 on the LD50 chart , which is a joke in itself..Overall the mamba has the fastest average killing time on humans but doesn’t make the top 10. What does that tell you about the LD50...

09/10/08 12:43pm

#1856227

Jparker1167
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Message To: JEFF QUARLES In reference to Message Id: 1856067

Top 10 most venomous snakes

that we need to do the ld50 test on humans lol any one want to volunteer. right now the ld50 is the best thing they have to go on.

09/10/08 05:11pm

#1856387

Shiftylarry
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Message To: Jparker1167 In reference to Message Id: 1856227

Top 10 most venomous snakes

I thought the beaked sea snake had adapted to eat coral and therefore had a less potent bite? Isn’t that what Attenborough was talking about in "Life in Cold Blood"?

09/10/08 08:01pm

#1856593

Agama
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Message To: Shiftylarry In reference to Message Id: 1856387

Top 10 most venomous snakes

i got it off of a site,it may be wrong,but i think im right.

09/11/08 01:24am

#1856802

TJP
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Message To: Agama In reference to Message Id: 1856593

Top 10 most venomous snakes

That list is for the top ten most venomous (based off of LD50 charts) in Australia. If you were add snakes from other countries, and not base it off of mice (LD50’s), that list would be cut down to 2 or 3 snakes. Dendroaspis, lachesis, echis, d. russelli, southeastern canebrakes, kraits, and certain cobras would certainly make the list with oxyuranus (not microlepidotus), pseudonaje, and acanthophis. Not in that specific order. Have I ever mentioned that I hate LD50 charts?

09/11/08 01:05pm

#1856814

JEFF QUARLES
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Message To: TJP In reference to Message Id: 1856802

Top 10 most venomous snakes

I hate them as well. Some will say that the ld-50 is the best we have but mice and humans are entirely different. I would take a hit from an common or western brown any day over the Black mamba. Dead is Dead but I will take my chances with anything other than the BM.

09/11/08 01:20pm

#1856979

TJP
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Message To: JEFF QUARLES In reference to Message Id: 1856814

Top 10 most venomous snakes

Any of the three will kill you readily without AV, it just depends on how you wanna go and how quickly. A mamba will kill you faster, but in less dramatic fashion. Brown’s won’t kill you as fast, but their neurotoxin also has coagulapathic components. Mamba’s also respond well to supportive care without AV (if you can make it that long), but won’t give you a dry bite like a brown might. Both have a very good AV, which is a good thing. Both have been known to kill before receiving it, though.
A mamba is one of the last snakes I wanna be bitten by, it’s a life-threatening situation in any case.
There is no dry bite, and there is no wasted time in the event of a bite. Once symptoms occur, your body will shut down quickly.
I don’t even like being in the same room as polylepis when their outside the enclosure, and I have NO desire to ever handle one. None whatsoever.

09/11/08 05:29pm

#1857397

Agama
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Message To: Shiftylarry In reference to Message Id: 1856387

Top 10 most venomous snakes

whats that.

09/11/08 11:10pm

#1858033

Flherp
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Message To: Agama In reference to Message Id: 1857397

Top 10 most venomous snakes

Tom,

I am aware of multiple dry or clinically insignificant bites due to Dendroaspis (mostly jamesoni (a few kaimosae), and viridis and angusticeps, no polylepis come to mind). I am not overly fond of polylepis (big headed black racers) either. The venom composition is variable in some of these as well, although I am not sure how well documented that is, I am aware of some very different symptoms originating from bites attributed to members of this genus - fasciculations, flaccid paralysis, respiratory failure, possibly some cardiac involvement due to the precence of calciseptin (very cool), etc.

Mice are used as models for many experiments that will ultimately result in extrapolation of data that will then be used to model outcomes in humans. They are inexpensive and similar enough to be used for many such experiments. The data produces models, not perfect information, but a picture of the potential outcome from an envenoming. Each envenoming is different, there are no meter dosed snakes, gland-size, time since last meal, amount of venom discharged, diet, geographical location, etc. all affect the venom, then variables in each patient account for even more variability (size, weight, age, general health, underlying medical conditions, etc.). I don’t think that there is a problem with the models as such, I think the problem lies in the way that people try to use them. I am not going to load my furniture in the Revell Kenworth and move it anywhere, it is just a model...the same goes for the use of murine models and snake venom.

09/12/08 08:55pm

#1859268

TJP
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Message To: Flherp In reference to Message Id: 1858033

Top 10 most venomous snakes

"I am aware of multiple dry or clinically insignificant bites due to Dendroaspis (mostly jamesoni (a few kaimosae), and viridis and angusticeps, no polylepis come to mind)."

I should have been a tad clearer when I said you won’t receive a dry bite from a mamba and said you won’t receive one from a polylepis. I am aware of a few dry bites from green’s... one is the same as you’re referring to. I know you were happy the way that one turned out...so was I.
I do understand why mice are used, but there are quite a few snakes where they are not a good model...lachesis being one of them.
BTW, if you wanna hook up next week-end while I’m in FL, give me a shout. I think Joe is coming up for a day or two, so it’d be cool if you could swing up with him. I fly into Jax Friday and fly out on Tuesday. If the weather holds, it could be prime herping.

09/14/08 11:18am

#1861427

Amphibiandude
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Message To: TJP In reference to Message Id: 1859268

Top 10 most venomous snakes

dude i hope you know the fierce snake is a tiapan but yur right it goes inland tiapan then .... then costal tiapan but yu are correct and only the inland is refered to as the fierce snake so just clearin that up

09/16/08 08:52pm

#1861489

Agama
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Message To: Amphibiandude In reference to Message Id: 1861427

Top 10 most venomous snakes

yeah i new that,i wonder are people looking at this to see if i got it right.

09/16/08 10:09pm

#1866023

Amphibiandude
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Message To: Agama In reference to Message Id: 1861489

Top 10 most venomous snakes

im not ive memorized it when i grow up i want an inland tiapan ....

09/22/08 07:56pm

#1866100

Agama
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Message To: Amphibiandude In reference to Message Id: 1866023

Top 10 most venomous snakes

why

09/22/08 08:49pm

#1866447

Cod4
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Message To: Shiftylarry In reference to Message Id: 1856387

Top 10 most venomous snakes

i agree with you i thought that to

09/23/08 09:31am

#1866453

Cod4
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Message To: Agama In reference to Message Id: 1856593

Top 10 most venomous snakes

ty agama i doing editorial on venomous snakes

09/23/08 09:46am

#1866783

Agama
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Message To: Cod4 In reference to Message Id: 1866453

Top 10 most venomous snakes

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09/23/08 06:55pm

#1866791

Amphibiandude
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Message To: Agama In reference to Message Id: 1866783

Top 10 most venomous snakes

oh and 1 thing usualy the tiger snakes are just posted as one if you do that then move the order down and ad boomslang and coral snakes

most dont agree because since they are a rear fanged species but if the get you good they are very dangerous snakes

09/23/08 07:01pm