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 #94131


MelissaM
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 Romaine, or IceBurg Lettuce...

Which one is best for them?



07/01/04  11:45pm
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 #94189


Uro_fan
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  Message To: MelissaM   In reference to Message Id: 94131


 Romaine, or IceBurg Lettuce...

Both have a rather low nutritional value when compared to other greens and most people will recommend not feeding either one in large amounts for this reason.

Romaine would definitely have the edge over iceberg when it comes to nutritional value. I do not see a problem using romaine to provide extra moisture or in small quantities with a variety of other healthy greens.



07/02/04  7:45am
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 #94190


Dragon Lady
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  Message To: MelissaM   In reference to Message Id: 94131


 Romaine, or IceBurg Lettuce...

Neither one is good....collard greens mustard greens escarole dandilion greens for more choices go to deerfernfarms.com



07/02/04  7:48am
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 #94194


Storm&rex
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  Message To: Dragon   In reference to Message Id: 94190


 Romaine, or IceBurg Lettuce...

i have been told that for water dragons iceburg lettuce is actually very bad because they can get addicted to it and as it has no nutritional value it could prove fatal so dont feed them it.

hope it helps u



07/02/04  9:24am
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 #94204


MelissaM
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  Message To: Storm&rex   In reference to Message Id: 94194


 Romaine, or IceBurg Lettuce...

Right now I’m feeding him lima beens, green beans, and a little lettuce. He doesn’t seem to like any of it. I went to deerfernfarms and all the stuff they said, like the alfalfa and the choy and the clover I can’t find anywhere in stores.



07/02/04  10:13am
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 #94230


Bunser
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  Message To: MelissaM   In reference to Message Id: 94204


 Romaine, or IceBurg Lettuce...

Most grocery stores carry the standard greens for Uro’s... Collard Greens, Kale, Mustard Greens, dandelion greens, etc. Also, a European spring mix is good but try to remove the baby spinich. Try adding some fruit as well, like red apples and banana peels, in small quantities. Just have to play around with varieties to find what your Uro likes. Its best to offer a good mix of variety. Try to avoid anything with the word lettuce in its name, do not offer spinich as it can cause the calcium to bind, and nothing that produces gas, like cabbage, and avoid acidic fruits unless in really small quantities



07/02/04  10:50am
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 #94235


Uro_fan
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  Message To: MelissaM   In reference to Message Id: 94204


 Romaine, or IceBurg Lettuce...

Melissa

The food advice that Gromph baenre gave you in your last post titled “What kinda food is the best?” was very good advice.

I have no problem finding curly endive, and escarole in most of my local grocery stores. A few of the stores in my area also carry dandelion greens.

Regarding your current diet-
Legumes are known oxalates (lima beans and green beans fall into this category) and the iceberg lettuce has very low nutritional value. In addition to having a moderate (lima) and high (green beans) oxalic acid level, the lima beans have a terrible ‘negative’ Ca:P ratio and the green beans also have a very poor Ca:P ratio and may actually have a negative ratio if you are feeding raw rather than frozen. Your uro is probably not getting the calcium he needs with the poor Ca:P ratios and the little calcium he does get is very possibly being tied up by the oxalates. Although none of these items are bad when used sparingly, a long term diet with these items as staples could lead to very disastrous results.

Try some of the foods that GB recommended as you should be able to find some if not most of the items he mentioned.




07/02/04  10:57am
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 #94242


MelissaM
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  Message To: Uro_fan   In reference to Message Id: 94235


 Romaine, or IceBurg Lettuce...

I have a calcium dust for him that I dust his food with everyday. Also what is collard greens, and mustard greens?



07/02/04  11:03am
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 #94300


WaveRunner
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  Message To: MelissaM   In reference to Message Id: 94242


 Romaine, or IceBurg Lettuce...

Try alfafa, my Uro LOVES it and its the only thing she’ll eat from my hand. I over looked it serveal times at the grocery store, but its in the produce section and usualy comes in a little small sqaure plastic container. Hope this helps?



07/02/04  11:49am
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 #94338


Uro_fan
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  Message To: MelissaM   In reference to Message Id: 94242


 Romaine, or IceBurg Lettuce...

Melissa,

It has not been proven that calcium supplements can be broken down and used by uromastyx so I would not rely on this in place of the proper diet I mentioned in my last post.

The only calcium supplement that is speculated to work is calcium D3. Some believe that calcium D3 is utilized by insectivores more readily then herbivores- I am one of those people with this belief. Some believe that D3 is only beneficial when uva is provided and some believe that it is not beneficial at all while others believe that it can be utilized by all reptiles. The latter does not seem to be the majority.

I use calcium D3 sparingly (can be toxic and lead to same symptoms as MBD) in addition to a healthy diet of items that have a balanced (2:1) Ca:P ratio. I also supplement with uva light.

Collard greens belong to the Brassicaceae family (genus brassica) which members also include broccoli, cabbage, kale, brussel sprouts, turnip greens….. Mustard greens are also a member of this family.

Although I use collard greens very sparingly, I caution the use of any plant from this family as they are known phytochemical plants. The primary chemical produced is Glucosinolates most of which in this group (brassica) produce a product which can effect thyroid function. The glucosinalates in this family release 3-4 primary products that are found (some with all 3) in quite a few species of this family. One of these products found in mustard greens: thiocyanates- inhibit the iodine uptake by the thyroid. Turnip greens also have a fair portion of this same product but about half of that of mustard. Without going into too much more detail…. Most members of the brassica family produce at least three types of products from glucosinalates which effect thyroid function. Feeding large amount of these items can lead to gout and a variety of other diseases.
In addition to being goitrogenic, a few members of this family also produce a measureable amount of oxalates. Collard and mustard both are considered oxalate food items with mustard having the greater level.

On the positive side…. Most of the items in this group have a terrific Ca:P ratio and are packed with vitamins and minerals. Due to the positive benefits, I picked a few items which I felt had the least negative drawbacks when balanced with the positive. The items that I use sparingly from this group are collard greens, turnip greens, and bok choy. I do not use all three at once and when I do use these greens they are a very small percentage of the diet being offered. I do not feed any type of cabbage and no longer use mustard greens.

This is just what I do and not necessarily what needs to be done.

I encourage everyone out here to do some digging into the nutritional content of food items that they feed their uros. Take into account the sugar, sodium, and carb levels while balancing against the important Ca:P ratio , vitamins and minerals. Do not forget to figure in the negative chemical drawbacks of plants such as those that are considered goitrogenics and oxalates.



07/02/04  1:13pm
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 #180512


Tmac
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  Message To: MelissaM   In reference to Message Id: 94131


 Romaine, or IceBurg Lettuce...

definetly romaine.And dont listen to those guys that say none because mine survived mostly on it for a while when i was misinformed about food.



11/13/04  3:52pm
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 #181073


Pogos grandma
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  Message To: MelissaM   In reference to Message Id: 94242


 Romaine, or IceBurg Lettuce...

Melissa,

I would definitely follow what Uro_fan and GB have to say about uro’s diet. I wouldn’t use neither Romaine nor Iceburg lettuce for their staple foods unless, your uro’s dehydrated and only then would I put in a bit of Romaine. You don’t want your uro to "survive" on lettuce, you want it to "thrive" and "grow" with the proper diet.

I feed Pogo escaroles and curly endives. I sprinkle in a few lentils now and then and a Hibiscus flower once in awhile. That’s her diet.



11/14/04  1:37pm
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 #181127


Tec-9-7
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  Message To: Pogos   In reference to Message Id: 181073


 Romaine, or IceBurg Lettuce...

Mine eat primarily Escarole, Chickory, and Bok Choi for greens. Interestingly, my female LOVES carrots and will root them out of the pile of greens when I add a few diced match-stick carrots to their food. Mine also enjoy dried split peas/lentils, tho they need the fresh greenery for moisture.



11/14/04  2:44pm
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 #208053


Uro_fan
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  Message To: Uro_fan   In reference to Message Id: 94338


 Romaine, or IceBurg Lettuce...

Quote from previous post:

"Some believe that D3 is only beneficial when uva is provided...."

correction:

Some believe that D3 is only beneficial when UVB is provided




12/29/04  7:37am
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 #208384


Frocto
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  Message To: Uro_fan   In reference to Message Id: 208053


 Romaine, or IceBurg Lettuce...

Uro_Fan, I’m jumping off topic her from Uros to Sulcatas. I thought I remember reading a comment from you about your sulcata. What staples do you feed your sulcatas? We have been feeding ours usually the same salad that we feed our Uros and Bearded Dragons everyday. Escarole is in it every day now, endive, cactus pad and baby bok choy are rotated every other day normally. Collard greens, kale, napa cabbage and bok choy every few days depending on what the store has at the time and what looks good.
Is it good to be feeding Sulcatas the same as the Uro? We have looked up alot of stuff on them and as always, find contridicting information.
Thanks for any help
Trent



12/29/04  6:12pm
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 #208412


Uro_fan
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  Message To: Frocto   In reference to Message Id: 208384


 Romaine, or IceBurg Lettuce...

I like to have a much higher fiber content for my sulcata so I provide some escarole and endive but feed fairly heavy on orchard and timothy grass which I order from Oxbow. I sometimes order bermuda grass from turtlestuff.com and also buy their meadow mix (seed) to grow indoors in the winter and outdoors in the summer.
The turtlestuff.com website is a good website for anyone with a turtle or tortoise but my research shows some conflicting information on some of their plant data.
In addition to the items mentioned above, I feed Mazuri tortoise food ( which I sometimes soak) and Rep Cal maintenance (with fruit) tortoise food.

Lately, I have been feeding small limited amounts of the orchard grass to some of my uromastyx to increase the fiber in their diet. The Mazuri Iguana diet I have been occasionally sprinkling on the uro’s food for the last half year or so has done a good job of increasing the fiber- I am just not sure how much I liked the idea of feeding it on a regular basis due to the ground soybean hulls and corn. I know Doug has recently started feeding the mazuri tortoise diet to his uros but that has an even higher soybean hull percentage. I will probably continue to use the Mazuri Iguana food sparingly but have started to add some of the orchard grass to boost the fiber a little more. Although I have not been feeding the grass for very long (and in limited portions), so far the uros seem to love it and no problems with the increase of fiber in the diet.




12/29/04  7:06pm
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 #208449


N@ke
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  Message To: Uro_fan   In reference to Message Id: 208412


 Romaine, or IceBurg Lettuce...

don’t bother with lettuce. Go with the things everyone else is suggesting, escarole, alfalfa, collared greens, mustard greens etc. also mine loves the frozen peas and carrots, I don’t know why, I just defrost them and put them in the dish and he eats them so fast, also mine like kiwi, and blueberries.



12/29/04  8:14pm
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 #208503


Mbioman
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  Message To: N@ke   In reference to Message Id: 208449


 Romaine, or IceBurg Lettuce...

you may also want to try feeding some spinach leaves and tarragon/other Artemisia plant foods which are native vegetation to the Saharan climate where uromastyx thrive. Alfalfa, as has been mentioned previously is good..as are legume vegies and lotus fruit (also native to Sahara, but hard to come by.) Starting your own garden of herbs and green vegies is also helpfull.



12/29/04  9:40pm
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 #208545


Ashmo75
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  Message To: MelissaM   In reference to Message Id: 94131


 Romaine, or IceBurg Lettuce...

from what i know, iceberg is very bad to feed reptiles at all...apparently it is just far too water dense and bloats them up very badly, i heard it can also cause diarrhea. i know that romaine is jusy plain low in nutritional value as well.



12/29/04  10:28pm
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 #208665


Frocto
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  Message To: Mbioman   In reference to Message Id: 208503


 Romaine, or IceBurg Lettuce...

The problem with saying vegetation native to the sahara climate where Uromastyx thrive is very misleading, yes the geryi and mali come from this area but what about benti uromastyx from Yemen? Or uros from Iran and up into Pakistan? The climate is very different and the uros from there have an entirely different diet.
Most of what people seemed to have tried in captive husbandry is what we have that is healthy and more helpful than harmful to our uros.
Everything that I have read has advised against feeding my uro spinach.
If you have the information that shows the native spinach plant ate in the Americas as being similar to and consumed by uros in the wild I would love to see it. I am very picky about what I feed my uros and since I don’t know alto about most of the food myself I depend on sites like this to help me care for my animals and prefer substantiated evidence to make me ignore everyone else on spinach.
Thanks
Trent



12/30/04  12:31am
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