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LeilaNami View Profile |
Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
A lady was terminal and she gave me him and his habitat. I don’t really remember but I believe he was somewhere between 6-7 inches long. I don’t believe he was offered UVB though he did receive UVA and I don’t believe he was kept hot enough. His appetite wasn’t very strong. After about a year and a half I was worried about him not growing at all (I did provide UVB/UVA). His appetite is very small and he will MAYBE eat a few times a week and only if I hand feed him. He will refuse all foods except lentils and leafy greens. I took him to the vet. He had parasite eggs and was dewormed with panacur. He seemed to briefly pick up in eating but then regressed to what he was doing previously. The ambient temp is 85 though I’m not sure what the basking spot is. He’s about 6 inches beneath a 150 watt bulb when he basks. (basking area is dead center of the tank and nowhere to put a thermometer). Two years later he is still 7 inches long though his color has darkened some. Do I have a midget uro or what? |
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| 11/04/09 12:16am |
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MissAnne2u View Profile |
Message To: LeilaNami In reference to Message Id: 2091760 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
But I can say from reading your post, that most likely the tank is too small, the diet is wrong and your temps are way off. I’ll bump the thread for you. Anne |
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| 11/04/09 07:58am |
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Obi Carl Kenobi View Profile |
Message To: LeilaNami In reference to Message Id: 2091760 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
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| 11/04/09 08:02am |
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Benedita View Profile |
Message To: LeilaNami In reference to Message Id: 2091760 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
are you measuring tip of snout to tip of tail, or snout to vent? can you post pictures, full body and head, so we can confirm that it’s an egyptian? did you have a follow up fecal test to determine if the panacur worked with only one treatment? We need to know more about your animal and husbandry, before we can make suggestions as to how to get your uro on the right track. I am bumping up a thread called "Please Read Before Posting" for you. copy the questions from the top of that thread and paste them into your reply in this thread. Please take the time to thoroughly answer all the questions, the more detail the better. don’t just guess at measurements and temps, you have to measure them. (a good way to accurately measure your uro is to use a string, then remove and measure the string with a ruler. Also, you mentioned providing UVA & B... what kind of UVB bulb do you use, merc-vapor or flor.? those incandescent reptile bulbs aren’t suitable for anything other than heat.) |
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| 11/04/09 08:10am |
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Mbwrink View Profile |
Message To: Benedita In reference to Message Id: 2091817 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
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| 11/04/09 02:48pm |
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LeilaNami View Profile |
Message To: Benedita In reference to Message Id: 2091817 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
2) Dimensions of the tank is 36"x18"x18" 3) Uro is aegypticus but I am unable to get pics clear enough to confirm. I have no camera. The length from snout to end of tail is 7.2 inches. Weight is unknown 4)He is the only one in the enclosure 5) Cannot affix a thermometer where he likes to bask and so I can’t get an accurate reading. It is 6 inches from 150 watt tight beam light. The light is not in the center but his favorite part to bask is 6) Cool spots are 85 and warm areas are 95. Measured with stick on dial thermomenter. Night time temperature is 75 7) Exoterra Compact florescent 10.0 bulbs. Age is 6 months and the uro can get within 6 inches 8) Uro will only eat leafy greens and lentils and only if hand fed. Food is offered daily. 9) Reptivite with D3 is the supplement used and at every feeding. 10) Exoterra Excavator approved by vet 11) Uro will sleep either in his cave or under the driftwood. As soon as the basking light starts warming up the tank, he pretty much stays there all day with an occasional run around the tank. 12) Appetite is minimal 13) He has always been this way and there have been no changes with the exception of a move to my current home 1.5 years ago. 14) Uro is handled only occasionally and only set in the lap. 15) Animal has been to the vet and dewormed with Panacur. He was given a clean bill of health. |
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| 11/04/09 11:05pm |
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Mbwrink View Profile |
Message To: LeilaNami In reference to Message Id: 2092137 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
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| 11/04/09 11:57pm |
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UROKEEPER View Profile |
Message To: LeilaNami In reference to Message Id: 2092137 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
Quote: Dimensions of the tank is 36"x18"x18"
you have had a U. Aegyptia in a 40gal for 2 years? this is VERY small for any uro let alone the largest species. This can stunt growth. You need to post a picture so we can try and ID this uro. Quote: Uro is aegypticus but I am unable to get pics clear enough to confirm. I have no camera. The length from snout to end of tail is 7.2 inches. Weight is unknown
if you have no camera, then how are the pictures not clear enough? try and borrow a camera and use photobucket to upload them. Quote: Cannot affix a thermometer where he likes to bask and so I can’t get an accurate reading. It is 6 inches from 150 watt tight beam light. The light is not in the center but his favorite part to bask is
why not? I can put a thermometer anywhere I choose. it is not difficult. The reason he basks in the center (favorite spot) and the basking bulb is to one side is because your temps are too hot. if the basking temps were adequate the uro would surely bask right under the bulb. This concerns me being that he is in a 40 gal with no thermometer and a keeper just guessing. you need a larger enclosure with proper measuring equipment. throw away the dial thermometer and purchase digitals for the cool/hot ends and a good quality infra red temp gun to measure the basking surface temperature. Also if you have a 7" uro why is your bulb 6 inches from him? A uro may rest on it’s tail on the glass and get burns. Quote: Exoterra Compact florescent 10.0 bulbs. Age is 6 months and the uro can get within 6 inches
these are not recommended. try and avoid most coil uvb lamps. Personally I use Mega Ray products from Westron of Canada. They are made in Canada then shipped to the USA under www.reptileuv.com who sells the products. I cannot say enough good things about the products. please look into them. Quote: Uro will only eat leafy greens and lentils and only if hand fed. Food is offered daily.
if your husbandry and enclosure size are correct the uro will eat on his own. hopefully you are offering recommended foods and also that you don’t feed lentils everyday. What do you feed? Quote: Reptivite with D3 is the supplement used and at every feeding.
do you know that d3 and vitamin A can become toxic if fed too much. Reptivite has high amounts of both. I would back it off a bit. This could stunt growth. I would not recommend this supplement daily. There are better choices for a uro. A varried diet being number one. Quote: Exoterra Excavator approved by vet
I would change the substrate. Excavator clay is useless in a small enclosure for what it’s purpose is, and may be dangerous as well. Just because a vet "approved" something doesn’t mean it’s in the best interest of the animal. Most vets don’t know much about Uro’s. Quote: As soon as the basking light starts warming up the tank, he pretty much stays there all day with an occasional run around the tank.
stays where? not much room to "run around". he could be staying in one area because the temperatures are incorrect which is the main problem. A uro will not eat much if the temperatures are incorrect. This can stunt growth Quote: Appetite is minimal
considering your husbandry this is not surprising. My Aegyptia has a ferrocious appetite. She is strong,very active and alert, has strong bones from quality lighting and diet. she is in an adequate sized enclosure. small enclosures will stunt growth,cause stress. In turn stress causes all kinds of issues. Quote: Uro is handled only occasionally and only set in the lap.
define occasionally? I will only handle to weigh them or to clean the entire enclosure. Quote: Animal has been to the vet and dewormed with Panacur. He was given a clean bill of health.
how many doses? did the vet weigh this uro to get an accurate dose? if you are unsure on the weight the vet most likely just estimated a dose which is not recommended. Panacure will typically take 2+ doses to clear up most worms. Did the vet do a fecal floatation and smear several weeks after treatment to confirm? or did the vet just give one dose and give the uro a "clean bill of health" You have many issues here. Many point to stunted growth. Please make some changes ASAP |
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| 11/05/09 08:24am |
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LeilaNami View Profile |
Message To: UROKEEPER In reference to Message Id: 2092229 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
Urokeeper- Once again, he is only 7 inches long and has not grown. His enclosure will be growing with him. I have no camera. I have a phone. That is it. The reason he basks in the center is because of the shape of the drift wood. The easiest basking spot on that driftwood happens to be closer to the center. I do plan to get a temp gun when I get some money. People dump their reptiles on me and so I spend a lot trying to get them healthy again. The uro is just one of many. The bulb is six inches away because the driftwood is a tall piece. He likes to climb. Thank you for the bulb suggestions. I will do some reading on them. The vet that approved the excavator is a specialized reptile vet. There is absolutely enough room to run around. Once again, he is 7 inches long. I really don’t see how a 3 foot enclosure is too small for an animal that currently is slightly longer than my hand. If he grows, I’ll upgrade the size of the enclosure. He is handled as I clean and that’s all. I don’t remember the dose of Panacur. This was a year ago. He recieved two doses over a month’s time and was given a clean bill of health two weeks after the second dose. I’d also like to point out, this uro had a bad appetite and energy level when I got him. He was in a 24" long tank on blue calci-sand with a 75 watt bulb. |
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| 11/07/09 10:09pm |
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LeilaNami View Profile |
Message To: LeilaNami In reference to Message Id: 2093182 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/LeilaNami/uro.jpg http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/LeilaNami/uro2.jpg |
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| 11/07/09 10:23pm |
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Teach331 View Profile |
Message To: LeilaNami In reference to Message Id: 2093184 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
Either way, i hope your Uro gets his/her appetite back very quickly, and hopefully once the Temps are adjusted a bit, that will occur... |
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| 11/07/09 11:55pm |
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Troy76012 View Profile |
Message To: LeilaNami In reference to Message Id: 2092137 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
Here is a link to Mali Uromastyx (U. maliensis) pictures. Link Even at 7 inches a minimum of a 2ft by 4ft is needed to allow for the proper heat gradient. Add hides to both the hot end and cool end. "He will refuse all foods except lentils and leafy greens." What foods is he refusing? Please do not feed Uromastyx insects, Studies of Uromastyx in the wild show they are completely herbivorous, and insects are harmful to their liver in the long term. As far as what to feed, leafy greens and lentils are a good start. Feed a mix of Spring Mix, Endive, Escarole, Mustard Greens, Turnip Greens, Collard Greens, Bok Choy, and some Kale. Edible flowers are also great to add to the mix. Try green peas or thawed mixed vegetables about once a week. Here is a link to a list of edible plants. Link You need a 120-140 degree basking with a gradient of 75-85 degrees on the cool side. You really need to measure your basking temperatures. 6 inches beneath a 150 watt bulb sounds way to hot. Only use the Reptivite with D3 a few times per month, with proper UVB lighting and varied diet calcium is not really needed. If he is in a glass tank try covering all 4 walls. Many times the glass and reflection will stress wild caught animals. Are you weighing him? Best way to determine if a Uromastyx is growing is to weigh him every few months. Uromastyx are very slow growing lizards, many species only gain 20-60 grams per year. Is your lizard pooping everyday? If he is he is eating more then you think. It is getting to be the time of year when Uromastyx eat less and start slowing down for the winter. Stress is one of the biggest reasons Uromastyx don’t grow and gain weight. To small cage equals stress, glass cage equals stress, to much Reptivite with D3 equals stress, improper basking temperatures equal stress, improper diet equals stress. Stress will kill a Uromastyx. |
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| 11/08/09 01:21am |
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LeilaNami View Profile |
Message To: Troy76012 In reference to Message Id: 2093236 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
As far as the foods refused here are some but not all: Apples, mango, peas, beans, alfalfa sprouts, basically anything that doesn’t look like a leaf. The lentils are only offered about once every couple of weeks and I give a small pinch of them in a bowl. He then grazes on them for the next two weeks. If any are left in the bowl, I wait another couple of weeks to offer any more. I used to feed a seed mix but then did further research after it was recommended to me only to find seed increases the risk of impaction so I stopped it entirely. I didn’t realize kale was able to be offered so I will start mixing that into his diet. I’m currently looking for a used temp gun I can afford so I can accurately measure the basking temperature. I’ll ease up on the supplementation. I’m used to animal prone to deficiencies so I use it by habit. His enclosure is a 40 gallon breeder aquarium so the reflection thing is possible. I’m planning to get a gram scale for my snakes but I didn’t think to weigh the uro. I’ll hurry that along and go ahead and purchase one. The uro poops when he eats but he isn’t always willing to eat every day. Every now and then I do catch him eating fresh poop. I trusted my mentors (herpetologists at the college) and my vets (all specialized reptile vets) to tell me if something was wrong with my setup. None mentioned the cage size as a problem for an animal his size though I do agree that the temperature gradient is hard to get with the dimensions I have to work with. We are currently looking to expand our enclosures and build new ones. I had planned to move the uro to larger enclosure by the time he reached 10 inches and continue to upgrade as he grew further. However if there’s the possibility he’s not the aegypticus juvenile I thought he was then I’ll go ahead and upgrade the enclosure as soon as possible. The reason I have been increasing the heat is because at 75 watts he was lethargic, 100 watt lamp he started basking but was still lethargic and I tried making it hotter with the 150 and he is still the same. I’ve been finding a lot of conflicting information with a lot of guesswork from people who don’t know these animals. I couldn’t figure it out with reading and my vets assured me he is plump and not dehydrated. I’ve been worried for these two years with really no one to help me other than books that contradict each other. |
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| 11/08/09 07:57pm |
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LeilaNami View Profile |
Message To: LeilaNami In reference to Message Id: 2093501 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/LeilaNami/Jasonscam005.jpg http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/LeilaNami/Jasonscam006.jpg http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/LeilaNami/Jasonscam007.jpg |
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| 11/08/09 08:06pm |
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Troy76012 View Profile |
Message To: LeilaNami In reference to Message Id: 2093503 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
Best way to sex an adult Uromastyx is to check for hemipenal bulges. Hold it right side up and gently curl its tail toward the ceiling and look at the vent aria to see if you see any hemipenal bulges? I am not seeing any hemipenal bulges in the new pictures you provided but without the tail being curled up it is hard to be sure. Kale is a once in a while food. Try adding dandelion or dandelion greens, or hibiscus flowers to your Uromastyx diet. What I meant was if your Uromastyx is pooping then it must be eating something. What goes in must come out. :) You are correct the larger cage is needed to get the proper temperatures. Here is what Egyptians look like http://www.deerfernfarms.com/Uromastyx_Egyptian.htm You Uromastyx look’s like a female Mali to me, but it has been 10 years since I have worked with Mali’s so I may be mistaken. Anyone else view the new pictures? Look like a Mali to you? A lot of the information published in books is based on 10 years ago methods. More then contradicting it is a matter of defining better methods of caring for the Uromastyx over the years. Your Uromastyx looks healthy to me I think once you start weighing It you will see that it is slowly gaining weight. Anyway hope this helps you some. Take care, Troy "uroranch" |
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| 11/08/09 09:45pm |
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MissAnne2u View Profile |
Message To: Troy76012 In reference to Message Id: 2093533 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
Definately need to get a bigger enclosure and a Mercury Vapor Bulb for UVB and Heat. As for diet, curly endive, escarole and dandelion leaves are the best staple foods with add-ins being bok choi and turnip greens as well as grated squash and zucchini. You can also add in soaked lentils and lima beans a couple of times a week. Good Luck |
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| 11/09/09 12:05am |
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UROKEEPER View Profile |
Message To: MissAnne2u In reference to Message Id: 2093568 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
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| 11/09/09 06:55am |
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UROKEEPER View Profile |
Message To: LeilaNami In reference to Message Id: 2093501 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
Quote: I had planned to move the uro to larger enclosure by the time he reached 10 inches and continue to upgrade as he grew further.
any sized uro should have proper heat gradient and enclosure size. minimum being a 4x2x2. It does not matter about the size of the uro. Small uro’s need the same basking and ambient gradients as adults. Husbandry plays a HUGE role in growth, Although some uro’s do tend to take longer to mature than others. However it should have grown a bit in two years which from my understanding is not normal growth. Quote: if there’s the possibility he’s not the aegypticus juvenile I thought he was then I’ll go ahead and upgrade the enclosure as soon as possible.
so if it were a U.aa or a U.am you would hold off on the larger enclosure? but if it is a smaller species you will upgrade asap? please explain. A 40 gal is a VERY temporary enclosure at best. not a 2 year deal. It’s not healthy for her. Quote: . The reason I have been increasing the heat is because at 75 watts he was lethargic, 100 watt lamp he started basking but was still lethargic and I tried making it hotter with the 150 and he is still the same
you CANNOT just go by wattage and height. you MUST measure these temperatures with proper equipment. Accurate temperatures are very important. even a 5-10 degree difference may be the deciding factor in a uromastyx thats eats or one who slowly starves. Quote: I couldn’t figure it out with reading and my vets assured me he is plump and not dehydrated
from one of the pictures I saw the backbone is visable. the flanks make it look "plump" (could be full of air) you may have a dehydrated uro although it does not look in terrible shape. do you know the signs of a dehydrated uro? It is very difficult for a new keeper to know what to look for. definitely get a gram scale,upgrade the enclosure,get proper measuring equipment,do not handle the uro,cover 3 sides of the enclosure,provide several low dark hides in various heat zones,offer moist staple greens a few times a day. If you do this the Uro will become less stressed and may eat more for you. From the second group of photos I’m leaning more towards a U. dispar maliensis but please do not quote me on that. Quote: Every now and then I do catch him eating fresh poop
This is more common for very young uro’s not a 2 year sub-adult. The uro may have weakened gut enzymes/bacterial flora from improper husbandry. The uro may be trying to boost it’s intestinal flora. However this is just speculation. It’s not something to encourage.Try and clean up fecal matter as soon as you can and try and keep it clean. Also try using natural slate tiles on top of bricks. One right under the basking light and one in the cool end. If the uro is stressed and scared it can still absorb heat while being sheltered. it does not have to sacrifice heat for shelter or vice versa. This can dramatically improve the sense of security of the uro and it may eat more frequently. keep the hides very low and dark. |
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| 11/09/09 08:02am |
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LeilaNami View Profile |
Message To: UROKEEPER In reference to Message Id: 2093629 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
Also the reason I changed the lighting was because the vet told me my temps were to cool with the wattage I was using. I’d like to thank all of you for the suggestions and I will be rehousing her as soon as possible along with the changes to the environment. |
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| 11/10/09 12:37am |
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LeilaNami View Profile |
Message To: LeilaNami In reference to Message Id: 2093912 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
http://www.repticzone.com/caresheets/540.html |
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| 11/10/09 12:51am |
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Benedita View Profile |
Message To: LeilaNami In reference to Message Id: 2093913 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
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| 11/10/09 07:49am |
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MissAnne2u View Profile |
Message To: Benedita In reference to Message Id: 2093945 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
Any size Uro, no matter what age needs to be in a 48x24x24 to ensure that the proper temps are being achieved. The size of the tank does not equate to the size of the Uro. Alot of new owners think that because its small it can be in a smaller tank, but they don’t realize they need a temp gradient from 80 on the cool end to 100 on the hot end and a 125-135 deg basking area, and it is nearly impossible to get these temps in a 10, 20, 30 or even 40g tank. |
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| 11/10/09 08:21am |
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Sahells Mom View Profile |
Message To: LeilaNami In reference to Message Id: 2093501 Won’t Eat Won’t Grow
Quote: I trusted my mentors (herpetologists at the college) and my vets (all specialized reptile vets) to tell me if something was wrong with my setup. None mentioned the cage size as a problem for an animal his size though I do agree that the temperature gradient is hard to get with the dimensions I have to work with.
My Brother is a herpetologist/biologist, and admits to knowing absolutely nothing about uromastyx. He is even a "Fellow" at two national zoo’s (meaning they come to him for advice on reptiles). I have spoken to two Vet’s that are "lizard experts", and neither has ever treated a uromastyx (asked if I could bring one of mine in to show them!). I talked to the vet school at the University of Georgia, and they knew nothing about uromastyx. Being a herpetologist just means they studied reptiles and amphibians. They did not learn about 1/4 of all that is out there! You will learn more from people on here that have raised their uromastyx for many years, than from "experts" in the field. He really only needs leafy greens like endive, escarole, dandelion greens, add a few pesticide free edible flowers, and he is good to go! Bee pollen sprinkled on the food a couple of times a week increases their appetite. No supplements (they usually won’t eat the greens if they are on it, and they shouldn’t need it anyway!!), you don’t need to feed fruit, etc. Feed him a variety of greens and he will be fine! Try a cut green grape if you think he is getting dehydrated. You can get a good temp gun for $25.00. It takes a long time to get temps right, even in the right size enclosure. I use three bulbs in mine. One Mega Ray, one flood light, also on the basking spot along with the Mega Ray, and a plain household bulb on the cool side for light. I sometimes have to change around the wattage of all but the Mega Ray, depending on how cold the winter is & how well it is heating. It seems to be a work in progress, but no one can tell you what wattage’s you need. You need a temp gun and digital thermometers at both ends to be able to gage your correct temps. The you experiment until you get them right! |
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| 11/10/09 07:49pm |
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