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Patches107 View Profile |
Rescued a Uro.
The lady was there on behalf of the husband, who sells reptiles at a flea market. In her mobile home was a large wooden case about 6’x4’, and inside were a TON of small plastic pull out drawers, maybe a 1/2 gallon each. All of them were filled with reptiles. She pulled one out that had TWO URO’S IN IT. A large Nigerian that was dominating the small female Mali. I unfortunately only had money for the one, and the Nigerian was big and fat, while the mali female was small and grossly underweight. To top it off, NONE of these reptiles aside from one bearded dragon had ANY light whatsoever. I was going to chew her out good for this treatment and how they’re abusing, but she clearly had no idea, it was all her husbands doing, and her teenage daughter and toddler son were standing there. I took the Mali straight to a different vet than Laytons, and this one also has treated Uro’s. In the end, she has no parasites and is 120 grams, and is about a quarter inch longer than Layton. She did have two small bruises on her chin, probably from the other uro. She is also very thin and needs food and heat, which she did get at home. I set her up temporarily in the 30 gal to heat up. She is VERY active and not afraid like Layton to move when in the room. Then I tested her compatbility with Layton in the 6’ long. First, she licked him several times as he cautiously watched. Then he started licking her, and afterwards she happily ran around the tank. The best part? Her enthusiasm encouraged Layton, for the very first time, walk around in front of my presence. They licked eachother more, and Layton followed her around a bit. Then she got ready to fall asleep under a hide and to my surprise, Layton crawled up next to her and snuggled with her, and now they’re asleep together. People say Mali’s are solitary, but it seems like she’s just what Layton needed, and she actually got him to slowly move around in front of me! Her name for now is Flora, unless I think of a better one. |
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| 10/27/09 12:11am |
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Patches107 View Profile |
Message To: Patches107 In reference to Message Id: 2088926 Rescued a Uro.
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| 10/27/09 12:18am |
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Lilbits View Profile |
Message To: Patches107 In reference to Message Id: 2088929 Rescued a Uro.
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| 10/27/09 01:12am |
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Foghukaup View Profile |
Message To: Patches107 In reference to Message Id: 2088929 Rescued a Uro.
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| 10/27/09 01:26am |
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UROKEEPER View Profile |
Message To: Patches107 In reference to Message Id: 2088926 Rescued a Uro.
do you mean external parasites? did the vet do a fecal on this uro? many vets will look at a uro and say "he is healthy" without looking inside. "She did have two small bruises on her chin, " what did these bruises look like? "She is also very thin" why not house this uro alone to acclimate, whlie Layton acclimates. "I set her up temporarily in the 30 gal to heat up. She is VERY active and not afraid like Layton to move when in the room. Then I tested her compatbility with Layton in the 6’ long." why are you disrupting Laytons acclimation? I seem to recall you are having difficulties getting Layton to eat and acclimate. now you throw another uro (that is stressed and skinny) in the mix and prolong both of their acclimation periods. I know you are somewhat new to keeping uro’s and you really should concentrate on the one you already have. thats too late now. I would seriously consider housing them alone. This may prove problematic with regards to the time of acclimation. "Then she got ready to fall asleep under a hide and to my surprise, Layton crawled up next to her and snuggled with her, and now they’re asleep together." yes this is usually what happens. many people will say "they are in love" or "theu look so cute"...do not confuse this with friendship or "cuddling". how many hides do you have? uro’s love to hide. Many uro’s will sleep in the same hide. even those who are aggressive towards eachother. Just because they sleep together doesn’t mean they like eachother. It really means nothing and the uro’s both want shelter for the night (which is good). "People say Mali’s are solitary, but it seems like she’s just what Layton needed" Layton and Flora need to be housed alone so they can fully acclimate before you even consider housing them together. Flora as you say is very thin and stressed and needs a head start. same with Layton he has not finished his acclimation which he is trying so hard to do for you and it all is put on pause while he tries to adjust to flora, this could put layton on a hunger strike and/or he may feel threatened by Flora. Remember Layton has been trying to claim his territory for a while. All of this equals stress, stress can kill a uro. if the vet didn’t do a fecal floatation and smear she could have a number of contagious parasites or something else. you are moving too fast for yoy experience patches. I know you are just trying to help this uro,however it may make things much worse.I suggest you seperate them immediately. |
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| 10/27/09 07:51am |
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UroRescuer View Profile |
Message To: UROKEEPER In reference to Message Id: 2088980 Rescued a Uro.
Great job on the rescue; it shows you’re a caring, wonderful person. =] |
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| 10/27/09 10:48am |
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Sugar Snap Pea View Profile |
Message To: UROKEEPER In reference to Message Id: 2088980 Rescued a Uro.
The reason being... uros are not monogamous by nature. They may live in a colony in the wild, but they don’t choose a mate for life, unlike some animals which clearly do so. Humans, let’s be frank, we romanticize love and relationships. As a species we’re not monogamous. We’re not monogamous like swans. If we are monogamous, that’s a conscious choice we make. We make a promise to honor, respect and be faithful to our spouse. It’s also what the society we live in expects of us, and it’s up to us individually how much we want to honor that promise for the rest of our lives. Does a person go to jail for being unfaithful? No. But he might lose his job if he’s a politician. Does a person go to jail for battering his/her spouse? Yes. A pair of humans who share the same territory, will fight, even if they have been married for 50 years. It’s just more subtle after all that time. A couple that isn’t monogamous and married long, is going to fight even more, and it could be very obvious. The relationship could end up in divorce or with one spouse injured or dead. Both of them are juveniles, coming to adulthood soon. Right now, they are probably taking comfort in each other’s presence. You don’t know when exactly they will become adults, or start fighting. And uros are territorial, male and female. If I had a pair, I would give them seperate tanks, and anytime they get together is under my watchful eyes. I wouldn’t leave them alone. One of them might get battered. Missing the tip of the tail, missing fingers. Bitten. Bleeding. This is the risk you are taking if you keep them housed together for the future. |
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| 10/27/09 11:01am |
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Patches107 View Profile |
Message To: Sugar Snap Pea In reference to Message Id: 2089012 Rescued a Uro.
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| 10/27/09 11:57am |
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Sugar Snap Pea View Profile |
Message To: Patches107 In reference to Message Id: 2089021 Rescued a Uro.
Quote: My question; why is it some people on here keep their Uros together and it’s fine?
I don’t doubt it can help with acclimatization in the short run. Personally, I’ve never called anyone a noob, or enjoyed being called one either, of course I don’t call myself that, someone else did. ;) So no, I’m notbeing rude. You can try, but there is a risk. Do you think the risk is worth it? There isn’t a survey that can help prove uros live better together than alone... in the same tank. A tank is not the same as a colony in the wild. |
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| 10/27/09 12:07pm |
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Jbreddawg View Profile |
Message To: Patches107 In reference to Message Id: 2088926 Rescued a Uro.
Do you even know if you have a pair ? Two males ? Unless you separate them now you will probably never get the first one to eat. Both will go down hill slowly and painfully. One will dominate the other , one will eat one will not. What you think is them being in love and (just what Layton needed) couldn’t be farther from reality. Especially at this stage . It took me 4 different hides before they were comfortable sleeping in different spots. Uro’s will often fight over and sleep in one spot. That doesn’t mean their in love it means that spot is warmer,more secure,darker,etc... Trust me, they would much prefer that there is NOT another uro in that perfect spot. You know you should quarantine any animal before introducing them right ? Even with a vet check. The good parasites they have can get widely out of control when they are stressed. I know others on here think it’s just fine to (rescue) uros but I think it’s the worst thing you can do. You may save one but you doom many many others by doing so. You are just providing the person/store with positive motivation that they can sell sick and poorly taken care of animals by rewarding them with money to do it all over again.That’s helping how ? Look at the big picture not just the one uro. Foghukaup,is your other lizard a uro ? |
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| 10/27/09 12:17pm |
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Sugar Snap Pea View Profile |
Message To: Jbreddawg In reference to Message Id: 2089027 Rescued a Uro.
Quote: You are just providing the person/store with positive motivation that they can sell sick and poorly taken care of animals by rewarding them with money to do it all over again.
It’s wrong if you leave a store with uros in unhealthy conditions or bad health with just cash in their hands. You have every right as a customer to tell them what you see is wrong and to do it right before you even think of buying another again. Send them literature. All of them love repeat customers, saves them $$$ in marketing or advertising. ;) |
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| 10/27/09 01:09pm |
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Patches107 View Profile |
Message To: Sugar Snap Pea In reference to Message Id: 2089040 Rescued a Uro.
Also, I got her vet checked, inside and out. She is in fact a girl, and she has no parasites whatsoever, no disease or anything, and Layton, who was also vet checked, has no parasites or diseases, and is definitely a boy. Again, there are also 6 hides in the 6 foot tank. They chose to sleep in the same one. When introduced, they crawled up to each other, Layton stood still, she licked him several times to sniff him out, and Layton licked back about four times and they went about their business. As she crawled about, Layton noticed my presence, and stood still, but slowly, for the first time ever, turned around and started walking. It seems this fact is being neglected, as it is really a big step for him, to move in front of me. It may seem unusual, but not all Uro’s are the same, but isn’t it possible that maybe, just maybe, she is helping Layton acclimate as opposed to hurting it? I will continue to watch this for further developments, but from what I’ve seen so far, this is indeed the case. It isn’t completely illogical to think that it’s possible. Also, it turns out he is active for the most part when I’m gone, but also remember that at times when he is being lazy, he is still in the process of shedding (which, as I’ve seen, can make a Uro less active than normal), and he did eat a bit as well. As for today, she has been active, and mostly basking. Layton got up, did his own thing, and crawled into a different hide and fell back asleep (this happened when I turned their lights on at 7 am). I think if you witnessed it for yourself first hand, instead of just hearing what I’m telling you, maybe you might agree. I’m not dumb about all of this, and these Uro’s have been nothing but a huge responsibility that I have been taking care of nearly non-stop every day since I got Layton on my birthday. I know in most situations, these animals end up in a bad situation when put together. I will continue to keep an eye on them because of this. However, their story is an experience I’ve never read or heard about with Uro’s and seems different for this reason. If it was any different, I would have separated them again. I have also made sure they have two food bowls, and they have several hides to choose from. And I would have loved to tell them off, but again, her children were present and I didn’t want to start a scene. If she had been alone, or it was her husband, it would be a different story. |
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| 10/27/09 01:53pm |
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Jbreddawg View Profile |
Message To: Sugar Snap Pea In reference to Message Id: 2089040 Rescued a Uro.
Someone going to a petstore/Private individual and seeing an animal in very poor condition,not being taken care of properly,etc... and then PAYING them for that animal is not rescuing it. That’s BUYING it. With that you are part of the problem not the solution. You are paving the way with cash and and a pat on the back that what their doing is ok and please continue on as someone else will be in tomorrow to (rescue) another one from you. STOP giving them money, STOP paying them for this behavior, STOP helping them to continue to sell sick and poorly kept animals by NOT buying that animal. When their unable to sell these animals and make a profit it will become unprofitable for them to do so and they will move on to something else. But as long as there are people out there that will (RESCUE) that poor uro for 50 dollars off of craigslist/petsmart,etc... there will continue to be a need to keep the supply flowing !!! |
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| 10/27/09 02:01pm |
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Mauis Mom View Profile |
Message To: Jbreddawg In reference to Message Id: 2089063 Rescued a Uro.
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| 10/27/09 02:48pm |
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UROKEEPER View Profile |
Message To: Patches107 In reference to Message Id: 2089059 Rescued a Uro.
Quote: I got her vet checked, inside and out. She is in fact a girl,
was this uro probed? or did the vet give an educated guess? do you know how hard it is to sex a uro beyond a doubt? young uro’s are very difficult to sex even by experienced keepers. colours will not tell you for sure. the presence of hemipenal bulges may not be present. going on pours alone is not a sure thing also. I am very pleased you are providing vet care to these uro’s so kudos to you for that. Quote: is definitely a boy
how do you know for sure? Quote: there are also 6 hides in the 6 foot tank. They chose to sleep in the same one.
again, that is what usually happens the best looking hide (to the uro’s) is claimed by both. many will think they are new "friends" this is typically far from true. patches I have seen this first hand so you telling me If I only saw it with my own eyes I would understand you doesn’t matter and it will not make me change my opinion. Quote: Layton noticed my presence, and stood still, but slowly, for the first time ever, turned around and started walking. It seems this fact is being neglected, as it is really a big step for him, to move in front of me. It may seem unusual, but not all Uro’s are the same, but isn’t it possible that maybe, just maybe, she is helping Layton acclimate as opposed to hurting it?
this fact is not being neglected. Layton most likely feels threatened by this uro and has no care in the world you are there. Layton is watching the other uro and there is a new threat (not you as much now but Flora) this may be why Layton doesn’t care you are there. It is NOT helping any uro’s acclimation believe me. Uro’s acclimate alone MUCH better. Quote: I think if you witnessed it for yourself first hand, instead of just hearing what I’m telling you, maybe you might agree.
I have seen this first hand. it’s not frienship or helping in any way. It’s doing the opposite. I would consider listening to what we are trying to tell you. quarantene/acclimate these uro’s in their own (proper sized)enclosures and get them feeding well and gaining a lot of weight. after that you "could" try housing them together. However there would have to be somebody home at all times to keep an eye on them. Some will live together fine for a week,month,year and all of a sudden you have a dead uro who suffered a horrible death.Spring is usually when the most aggressive behaviour is but it’s not just limited to spring, uro’s can and will fight any time of year. two males,two females,male/female they will all fight.aggression is not always in the form of fighting or physical abuse. An inexperienced keeper may not know serious signs of distress. Sometimes they are not easily seen. Time progresses and the uro is dead. I have seen it dozens of times....your case is no different. They may be fine together,however you must quarantene the uro’s for six months to a year and get them feeding well before trying to pair. Personally I wouldn’t risk it as they will be adults which are very difficult to keep together unless paired when very young. Quote: I’m not dumb about all of this, and these Uro’s have been nothing but a huge responsibility that I have been taking care of nearly non-stop every day since I got Layton on my birthday.
they are your responsibility. They cannot speak to you. It’s up to you to do whats best for them. uro’s are completely dependent on the keeper. why not follow our advice. It would be the responsible thing to do. Quote: I know in most situations, these animals end up in a bad situation when put together.
if you know this why would you risk it. I know you aquired a new 6x1.5x2 and it may look very big and it would look real nice with another uro in there but please resist the urge.listen to experience. find another large enclosure for the other uro. |
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| 10/27/09 03:04pm |
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UROKEEPER View Profile |
Message To: Mauis Mom In reference to Message Id: 2089074 Rescued a Uro.
Quote: well said, jbred.
agreed |
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| 10/27/09 03:06pm |
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UROKEEPER View Profile |
Message To: Foghukaup In reference to Message Id: 2088950 Rescued a Uro.
Quote: she and my other lizard cuddle all the time too.
what species is your other lizard? |
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| 10/27/09 03:08pm |
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Sugar Snap Pea View Profile |
Message To: Patches107 In reference to Message Id: 2089059 Rescued a Uro.
You have two new uros and one large tank. It’s your decision to let them co-habit in the same tank or give them tanks of their own. In making your decision, you’ve chosen to go with co-habit and you seem surprised you got ample warnings by now from more than one experienced owners than me. You’ve watched your pair of uros and think they are co-habiting okay. It’s your decision what you will do from here. So... if you’re going to keep an eye on what they do while they co-habit... are you going to make a further decision based on what you see whether Flora gets her own tank? What are you looking for before you make a final decision? Think ahead. The warnings given by uro owners more experienced than myself are actually quite sound. Some things you can’t change about animals. At least for myself I’m not conservative or wingnut. ;) If things go bad and they need tanks of their own, would you have one set up and ready to seperate them immediately or within a few hours? Will you have the time and cash to send the injured uro to the vet quick? Layton sounds like a shy, meek uro. Keep it in mind, "do you think the risk is worth it?" if he is indeed less brave, aggressive, even as bold as Flora. |
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| 10/27/09 03:10pm |
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Sugar Snap Pea View Profile |
Message To: Sugar Snap Pea In reference to Message Id: 2089089 Rescued a Uro.
Quote: And I would have loved to tell them off, but again, her children were present and I didn’t want to start a scene. If she had been alone, or it was her husband, it would be a different story.
Make it a different story. It’s not even clear if the "pet store" operated from their mobile home is legal. |
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| 10/27/09 03:31pm |
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UROKEEPER View Profile |
Message To: Sugar Snap Pea In reference to Message Id: 2089089 Rescued a Uro.
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| 10/27/09 03:39pm |
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Jbreddawg View Profile |
Message To: Patches107 In reference to Message Id: 2089059 Rescued a Uro.
Quote: Again, there are also 6 hides in the 6 foot tank. They chose to sleep in the same one.
I had six places to hide also. They kept trying to fit into the same hide. Why ? Who knows.What I do know is that it’s not because there buddies,need each other, are friends. Sleeping in the same hide is not a (good) sign. For me it was a sign that I needed to change things. I have built 3 different hides until they have finally each picked a favorite spot (not together) I see that as being comfortable not the other way around. Quote: As she crawled about, Layton noticed my presence, and stood still, but slowly, for the first time ever, turned around and started walking. It seems this fact is being neglected, as it is really a big step for him, to move in front of me. It may seem unusual, but not all Uro’s are the same, but isn’t it possible that maybe, just maybe, she is helping Layton acclimate as opposed to hurting it?
I would say he was trying to acclimate and was scared to death of the great big monster outside the tank. Now, he is less concerned with whats outside the tank and is now more concerned with the immediate threat INSIDE the tank. I think your seeing something that’s not there. Quote: I think if you witnessed it for yourself first hand, instead of just hearing what I’m telling you, maybe you might agree.
I think most of us have witnessed alot more then you have .Maybe if you listen to what EVERYONE is telling you then you might agree. Quote: I know in most situations, these animals end up in a bad situation when put together.
Then why are you taking chances with their health ? There are ways to introduce two uro’s. Typically you take two very young ,very healthy,eating uro’s. Before they have established their full personalities,and introduce them into an enclosure that is NEW to both of them. That way they both have to get acclimated to their new surroundings including sharing an enclosure with another uro. They will make it or not. Uro’s don’t always actually fight. What ends up happening is one will be stronger and dominate the other. You may not even see it but it is happening. One will grow and be fine and one will not. Until you have two completely healthy ,fat,acclimated,eating uro’s you shouldn’t even attempt it. Placing two different size uro’s neither of which has acclimated,neither of which is eating regularly into the same enclosure and ignoring what everyone is telling you is very irresponsible. I know you say your uro’s might just be (different) but if you had any idea of just how many times people come on here and swear their uro is (different) you would maybe understand. Everyone who has posted has given you the same basic advice. If you choose to not listen to that advice from members with many years of experience then that is your choice but understand the health of your uro’s is depending on you and you alone. |
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| 10/27/09 05:05pm |
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Patches107 View Profile |
Message To: Jbreddawg In reference to Message Id: 2089120 Rescued a Uro.
First: You said, yet again, they are two different sizes. No, they aren’t. They are the same size. Also, Layton was placed in his new enclosure a day before she was. So it’s roughly the same time. Also, I posted on here expecting a some of these responses because I’ve already observed it in other threads, but it’s uncalled for to call me irresponsible and bash me for basically rescuing a Uro. I had nothing but good intentions for her, to save her, and to nurse her back to health, and instead I’m getting torn apart with how bad of a person I must be for doing such a thing. I’m sorry I didn’t take into account that buying her was apparently not considered "rescuing" even though she was living in a plastic drawer with another Uromastyx that was dominating her and keeping food from her. I understand what you mean, I shouldn’t be supporting the lifestyle the couple was doing by buying reptiles and mistreating them. But I hadn’t thought of it that way because it never crossed my mind that what I was doing was "bad", and all that was going through my mind was "I have to save that uro". I also never thought of the possibility that my money could be helping them until you guys mentioned it. In the end, I have nothing further to say, I’m not going to sit here and continue to be put down. I went into this with my heart in the right place. I may have done something that you all disagree with but you can’t deny that I did what was best for her, and at the time I wasn’t aware that I was helping them. I don’t agree with you saying I didn’t rescue a Uro, because in the end she would have died if I didn’t buy her. Sorry that I paid money to save a life, I guess that doesn’t count as a rescue in your book but it does in mine. |
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| 10/28/09 12:07am |
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Jbreddawg View Profile |
Message To: Patches107 In reference to Message Id: 2089235 Rescued a Uro.
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| 10/28/09 04:32pm |
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Patches107 View Profile |
Message To: Jbreddawg In reference to Message Id: 2089403 Rescued a Uro.
...oh, and I forgot to mention, uro keeper, the vet did gently look to make sure, and Flora is indeed a girl. And the other vet also confirmed that Layton is a boy and has hemipenel bulges... |
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| 10/28/09 11:21pm |
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Mauis Mom View Profile |
Message To: Patches107 In reference to Message Id: 2089557 Rescued a Uro.
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| 10/30/09 11:24am |
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Foghukaup View Profile |
Message To: UROKEEPER In reference to Message Id: 2089087 Rescued a Uro.
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| 10/30/09 06:07pm |
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Sahells Mom View Profile |
Message To: Jbreddawg In reference to Message Id: 2089027 Rescued a Uro.
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| 10/30/09 11:14pm |
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Patches107 View Profile |
Message To: Sahells Mom In reference to Message Id: 2090196 Rescued a Uro.
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| 10/31/09 12:54am |
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UROKEEPER View Profile |
Message To: Patches107 In reference to Message Id: 2089557 Rescued a Uro.
Quote: I forgot to mention, uro keeper, the vet did gently look to make sure, and Flora is indeed a girl.
sounds like the vet probed this Uro. Uromastyx should NEVER be probed.It does not matter how "gently" it looked. it is very easy to rupture the internal passage and kill the uro. Why anyone probes a uro is beyond me. it’s not fair to the uro that they are probed for the keepers benefit. hopefully you will do what is responsible and seperate these uro’s. |
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| 11/02/09 09:24am |
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Patches107 View Profile |
Message To: UROKEEPER In reference to Message Id: 2090965 Rescued a Uro.
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| 11/02/09 10:26pm |
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