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#1839610
Jacquie624
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I am SO confused about my Mali’s action 
I started caring for my granddaughter’s Mali almost 3 years ago. He decided he liked it with me more so he’s stayed. He is such a sweetie and I’m very happy with his decision. However, we have no idea how old he is but know he was full grown when my granddaughter got him about 10 years ago. A few months ago, I found him on his back with his little feet clasped together. I quickly flipped him over, checked him out, and he appeared to be fine. I figured he probably slipped off the log he climbs on but still wanted him checked out. Turns out that there are no vets within a 30 mile radius who have a clue about reptiles in general let alone Mali’s. Fortunately, he’s been fine until this past week. I’ve found him upside down three times now (four if you count the first time). Each time when he’s turned back over, he acts normally until he does it again. Could he be having seizures? Is this something he may be doing because he is old? I’m concerned that he is preparing to die and I’ll need some time to prepare for that as well. He changed his eating habits a few months ago. I’ve always kept seed, split peas, lentils and juvenile Iguana food for him at all times and his "salad" (greens and mixed veggies) he only wants every other day now rather than daily as before. His tank stays at about 95-100 degrees throughout and 110-120 for basking. I’m not sure about the dimensions of his tank but it’s over 1/2 bigger than what he had his whole life so it shouldn’t be too small and he’s been in it for over 2 years without a problem. Any insight into this behavior? I’m willing to try anything but getting him to the vet seems to be not an option. I don’t drive and can’t find a vet on the bus route. Any thoughts or suggestions are MOST welcome. Thank you!!
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08/22/08 04:51pm
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#1839613
UroBrett
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Message To: Jacquie624 In reference to Message Id: 1839610
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
here is a good article on this:
http://www.angelfire.com/al/repticare3/page19.html
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08/22/08 04:56pm
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#1839614
UroBrett
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Message To: UroBrett In reference to Message Id: 1839613
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
maybe your temps are too high? cool side should be more like gradient of 95 - 85
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08/22/08 04:58pm
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#1839663
Skullkeeper
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Message To: Jacquie624 In reference to Message Id: 1839610
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
If you really care about this Uro why is taking it to a good reptile vet out of the question ? Surly you have family members or a friend that could take you .If you change your mind I would be glad to help you find one .
As far as any other help I need more info . If you will read the post," before posting " and answer the question we can help you better .We need to know the diet, substrate , size of cage ( just take a tape measure and measure it ) ,lighting, types of thermometers being used ,supplements etc.It could be seizures or metabolic bone disease or some thing else . Posting a picture would be helpful also.
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08/22/08 06:15pm
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#1839940
Jacquie624
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Message To: UroBrett In reference to Message Id: 1839613
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
Thank you SO much for this link. It is very informative albeit disheartening. As for the tank temps, I read in several places that was the correct temps for him. I’ll try cooling down the non-basking side and see what happens. Thank you again!!
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08/22/08 11:09pm
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#1839977
Jacquie624
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Message To: Skullkeeper In reference to Message Id: 1839663
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
Please understand, Skullkeeper, I am an older woman living alone, on a small disability check. I DO care very much for this little guy. He brings me much joy every day. But there is no one I can ask to take us to a vet and using a taxi service is extremely cost prohibitive based on how far it appears I would have to travel. When I first got Leo, my granddaughter had him on a bed of seeds for substrate and fed him 6 crickets every couple of weeks. She was told by his previous owners that was all he needed. I found this web site and others which let me know he had always had an improper diet and that was the first change I made for him. Much of what I learned about Uros was here and the Deer Fern Farms web site, among others. As I mentioned in my initial post, he has a constant supply of dry food - seeds, lentils, split peas, and juvenile Iguana food. I vary his leafy greens in is salad but primarily stick with endive, dandelion greens, and curly mustard greens as those are his favorites. The mixed veggies are fairly consistent as they are frozen but warmed before serving. I do occasionally give him dandelion and hibiscus flowers. He doesn’t have any supplements. In the beginning I tried several substrates from different types of recommend sand to the reptile carpet he has had for almost 2 years now. His tank measures 13 inches by 46 inches. I’m not sure what the long UVA/UVB bulb wattage is as I no longer have the box it came in but he has an additional day bulb as well as a night bulb - again, I am unsure of the wattage. I have two Flukers thermometers in his tank, one on either end. I’ve also uploaded a picture of my little guy. I hope it comes out. I haven’t found the "before you post" section so if I’ve missed anything, I apologize. Thank you for your response. Leo’s life has been rough and none of his needs were being met for many years. I’m sure this has had an affect on his general health.
http://www.repticzone.net/images/19056/Leo.jpg
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08/22/08 11:55pm
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#1840109
Morgs71
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Message To: Jacquie624 In reference to Message Id: 1839977
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
the baskin temps are a bit low. they need to be around 125-135. also ur uv light needs to be a 10.0 wattage. frozen veggies dont hav very much nutrients left so fresh would be better. make sure he has good uv. if the light older than 6-8 months change it, they start to loose their uv output even tho the light still shinin bright.
ryan
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08/23/08 05:12am
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#1840122
Skullkeeper
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Message To: Jacquie624 In reference to Message Id: 1839977
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
That helps . I would stop feeding the mustard greens . Limit the frozen veggies , try to feed fresh as much as possible . Most canned or frozen contain salt and are not as nutritious . When was the UVB light bought?They should be changed every 5-6 months . If you have a florescent UVB light I would suspend it under your screen so that there is nothing between it and the Uro. I would have it 10 inches from the bottom of the cage so he gets the most UVB rays possible . You might get a good calcium supplement to sprinkle on his moist veggies . But only give it to him once a week. It sounds like it could be Metabolic Bone Disease .
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08/23/08 07:41am
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#1840187
Morgs71
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Message To: Skullkeeper In reference to Message Id: 1840122
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
mbd. just wot i was thinkin, lack of uv mayb? and poor diet due to lack of nutrients left in frozen veggies. ???? hopefully u’ll be able to get it fixed.
ryan
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08/23/08 09:40am
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#1840247
Jacquie624
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Message To: Skullkeeper In reference to Message Id: 1840122
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
After reading these posts, I researched reptile MBD and it doesn’t sound good but at least it’s something I can work with. His lights are over 1 year old so those will all be replaced. The hood I have holds a fluorescent UVA/UVB, a day time bulb and a night light. Leo doesn’t go out at night so that bulb is more for me so I can occasionally see him even if it is only the tip of his tail. At present, I don’t have a way to suspend lights under the screen but will work on that. Perhaps a stronger light would suffice until I can figure out a way to get one outside the hood. When Leo first came to me, I tried to get him to take calcium/mineral supplements but the only way he would take them was if I dusted crickets. If I put it on his food, he wouldn’t eat and with his diet the way it was, I was more concerned that he eat. Wouldn’t hurt to try again though. I am curious as to why you said to stop the mustard greens, Skullkeeper, as everything I’ve read said they are good for him and they are one of his favorites. Is there a reason to stop these greens given his current condition? I know any care sheet I read is geared toward maintaining a healthy Uro but Leo has special needs right now. And I have three Knights in Shining Armor trying to help me ensure his needs are met. THANK YOU ALL!!
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08/23/08 11:48am
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#1840294
MissAnne2u
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Message To: Jacquie624 In reference to Message Id: 1840247
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
Uro’s shouldnt have a light at night .. it disrupts their sleep pattern. Glad to hear you are taking care of him and getting advice from people here. They are a wealth of knowledge.
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08/23/08 12:47pm
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#1840333
Skullkeeper
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Message To: Jacquie624 In reference to Message Id: 1840247
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
Most screens will block the UVB rays from reaching him . You can suspend the entire fixture with some bendable wire to under the screen or cut the screen so it is not covering the bulb . It needs to be 12 inches or less from the bottom of the cage or again he will not benefit from it . Closer is even better . You might try hiding the calcium powered under his greens and just use a sprinkle not too much .He should not have any lights on at night , he need about 12 hours of light and 12 of darkness .His cage should not fall below 70* at night . Between 70-75* is best in my opinion. If the room temp. does not fall below 75* at night he should be okay, but if it goes below that you will need a ceramic heat emitter to keep him warm at night .
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08/23/08 01:36pm
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#1840339
Skullkeeper
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Message To: Skullkeeper In reference to Message Id: 1840333
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
I am sorry you can feed some turnip greens , mustard greens and collard greens but do not feed kale , lettuce , spinach , or broccoli. I would feed more dandelion, endive , squash and escarole than the other greens mentioned .
I was thinking you said kale this morning . I must not have been awake yet .
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08/23/08 01:47pm
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#1840371
Morgs71
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Message To: Skullkeeper In reference to Message Id: 1840339
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
as long as you reach ur day time temps you shouldn’t need a heat source during the night. all i have to do is turn the lights of and the enough heat lasts through the night. i hav a heat mat just in case, but i rarely c it on.
always glad to help
ryan
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08/23/08 02:20pm
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#1840501
Skullkeeper
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Message To: Morgs71 In reference to Message Id: 1840371
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
It maybe enough for your set up but it may not be for her .It will depend on the room temp. size of enclosure , type of substrate, etc as to if she will need a ceramic heat emitter . A heat mat is not a good idea to be used with a Uro .
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08/23/08 05:05pm
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#1840991
Jacquie624
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Message To: Skullkeeper In reference to Message Id: 1840501
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
Thank you all again for the helpful suggestions. I truly appreciate them. For my health issues, I keep the apartment cooler so Leo has two ceramic heaters - one larger than the other - to keep temps where he needs them. The smaller one I keep on at night because if I don’t he’s cold and lethargic in the morning. He does like the "quick warm up" he gets in the morning when I hold him to warm him up but I don’t like him getting cold at all and I can hold him whenever I want. He’s on the bottom of a two-tank stand (the Ball Python is on top due to humidity concerns) so I should be able to figure how a way to suspend his hood using the stand posts if nothing else. My granddaughter had him on one of those heat rocks when he came here but everything I read about them spelled "danger" for Leo so I cut the cord on that real quick and will not use anything that would give him heat underneath in case of a malfunction that could potentially cause him a burn. Deer Fern Farms has a starter kit that has a good mix of calcium, vitamins/minerals, etc. that Leo needs and I’ll be getting that. It also has one of those point and click thermometers that is probably more accurate than the Flukers. Now all I have to do is wait for the 3rd to get his new bulbs (and NO night light) and order the kit. Thank you all again! I know this is a very serious time for Leo but thanks to you good people, I feel we’ll get over this hump and I won’t lose my little guy for a long time.
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08/24/08 07:40am
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#1841124
Rtl402
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Message To: Jacquie624 In reference to Message Id: 1840991
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
you probably shouldnt be handling him to wake him up. and you should never take them out of their hides unless its an emergency. the hide is meant to be a safe place for them, if you take him our of his hide it may be stressing him out and that wouldn’t be good at all. I would avoid handling him first thing in the morning. They will get up up on their own when they are ready to bask, eat, do their dirty business, etc. Hope that helps a bit :)
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08/24/08 11:59am
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#1841537
Jacquie624
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Message To: Rtl402 In reference to Message Id: 1841124
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
I apologize for the confusion and appreciate your concern rtl402. I have never taken Leo out of his hide. I never thought about stress level, I just figured if he wants privacy he should have it. But if he hears my voice, he always comes. I usually begin by stroking his head and back and if he wants to be held, he lets me know. This is what I was doing when I found him cold a couple of times and then I didn’t care if he wanted to be held or not, he needed to get warmed up asap. After the second time, I never shut the smaller heater off and that stopped that. Leo has had a very hard life up until I got him (example: my granddaughter originally had two Uros but one died when she didn’t feed them for 6 weeks - she was angry at her mother) and I have every intention of letting him have whatever he wants. He has never been to a vet nor has he ever had a proper diet or habitat to list a few of the hardships he has had to endure. I’m sure all of his history has impacted his life span but I am determined his last years will be as pleasant - and as many - as I can make them.
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08/24/08 08:59pm
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#1841830
Skullkeeper
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Message To: Jacquie624 In reference to Message Id: 1841537
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
I have 5 young grandchildren my self . They all have pets even my youngest that is 3 . They have responsibilities of feeding and cleaning the cages but their mother supervise them. I hope that your granddaughter got an appropriate punishment for her inhumane treatment of the Uro’s . I also hope her parents have learned some thing . When a child has pets the parents should also be involved with the care of the pets and provide what is necessary for a health, happy animal. I mean what does it teach children if we let them do such things ?
I glad he has finally found a caring home .
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08/25/08 07:52am
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#1841886
Jacquie624
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Message To: Skullkeeper In reference to Message Id: 1841830
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
I doubt there was any punishment. My son and his wife were separated when my granddaughter and her mother had the fight and my granddaughter went to stay with my son - she was 17. I didn’t find out about this until a few years later when I had all her animals when she lost her apartment. She had quite a collection and none of them, with the exception of the hamster, were housed as I thought they should be but the arrangement was supposed to be temporary and as we had only recently been reunited, I kept my thoughts to myself. I had not spoken to my son in over 20 years at that time and was not part of my granddaughter’s life. Needless to say, I was treading some very thin ice and not quite ready to rock the boat. When her rats became overly aggressive, I told her she would have to make other arrangements for them and gave her two weeks to find them a new home, bought thick gloves so when they bit me during feeding and cage cleaning it wouldn’t hurt and waited for her to move them. I didn’t hear from her again for several months. I asked my son what the problem was and he told me it was probably because she wasn’t getting her way and told me the tragic story of the Uros. Seems when she went to stay with my son her mother would only let her in the house if she was home and my granddaughter didn’t want to be there when her mother was home and of course, her mother didn’t think it was her job to feed the Uros so because of their petty childishness, a life was lost. I eventually sent the rats to a rescue as by this time they were jumping on the sides of their cage trying to bite when someone would just walk by. When the chinchilla broke the cage she had him in, I contacted her again through a text message (she still wasn’t taking my calls), told her the chin needed a new cage which I would be happy to provide but needed to know if she planned on ever taking him back so I would know what to get for him. Still no answer so after a month, I got him what I wanted and now he has a 6’ x 4’ x 2’ enclosure with 6 levels of jumping, running, play space and is very happy. She eventually came by one day with her new boyfriend and wanted to show him "her" critters. I got Leo out of his tank and when she touched his back - while I was still holding him - he got violent. That is the ONLY time I have ever seen him get defensive. Naturally I put him to my chest, held him close, rocked him gently and told him "It’s ok, mom’s got you" and he settled right down. I don’t know if it was her touch or her voice that set him off, but that’s proof of how smart he is and how long a memory he has. The chin just turned his back on her but gave me kisses. Needless to say she doesn’t call them "hers" any more. Or maybe she does. I haven’t heard from her in about a year now. Thankfully, my son tells me she doesn’t have any more pets and for that I am grateful.
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08/25/08 10:15am
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#1841900
UroBrett
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Message To: Jacquie624 In reference to Message Id: 1841886
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
not sure if this was mentioned, but a vet who knows reptiles can give a shot that helps immediately for MBD. The shot works very quickly and I strongly recommend getting this done right away. (do not remember what the shot is exactly - I’ve only had one issue with MBD with a green iguana many years ago, when the books still said broccoli, corn, and spinach were good to feed). I know you mentioned financial issues, but it’s not that expensive and well worth it. Especially as severe as the condition sounds from the symptoms you’ve described. The iguana developed swollen hind legs and then a soft lower jaw despite UV lights, supplements, and what I thought at the time was the correct diet. It got better very quickly, within a few weeks, after the shot and change in diet so maybe you might want to check into it...
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08/25/08 11:01am
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#1842038
Jacquie624
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Message To: UroBrett In reference to Message Id: 1841900
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
Financial constraints aren’t the biggest issue. I had planned to not get my meds so I could get Leo what he needs. However, I cannot find a vet on the bus line that has a clue about reptiles in general much less Uros. And unfortunately, the bus is the only transportation available to me. The soft jaw was mentioned in a previous post so I checked that out and he doesn’t appear to have that. Plus if you could hear him crack them split peas, lentils and seeds, you’d know his jaws are working fine. At least for now. But I WILL be keeping a close eye on any changes.
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08/25/08 01:49pm
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#1842345
Skullkeeper
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Message To: Jacquie624 In reference to Message Id: 1841886
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
Wow a 17 year should know better and be more responsible . Thats very sad
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08/25/08 06:37pm
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#1842374
Jacquie624
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Message To: Skullkeeper In reference to Message Id: 1842345
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
It’s not just sad, it’s sorry. And, in my opinion, unforgivable. I know life is full of gray areas but there are some things that are simply right or wrong. It may sound harsh, but as far as I’m concerned my granddaughter and her mother are both guilty of murder plain and simple. We are supposed to take care of everything weaker than ourselves (except bugs - I put them back outside as I really dislike bugs). I sincerely hope and pray that she has a different attitude toward humans in the event she should ever have children and have a disagreement with their father.
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08/25/08 06:52pm
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#1842454
LizardFreak*
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Message To: Jacquie624 In reference to Message Id: 1842374
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
I hope all goes well with Leo and I can see that you deeply care about him. I see that you are located in Michigan, where at? Maybe I can help you find a vet.
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08/25/08 07:50pm
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#1842695
Jacquie624
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Message To: LizardFreak* In reference to Message Id: 1842454
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
I live over by Metro Airport. Do you know of any good Uro vets close to me? I sure would appreciate any information you can provide. I called every one I found in the yellow pages within a 30 mile radius but none of them were familiar with reptiles in general much less Uros. Thank you!!
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08/25/08 11:41pm
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#1842833
Crablegs
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Message To: Jacquie624 In reference to Message Id: 1842695
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
http://repticzone.com/articles/vets/Michigan.html
here is the vets I found in Michigan using the sites locator. Good luck!
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08/26/08 08:01am
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#1842875
Jacquie624
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Message To: Crablegs In reference to Message Id: 1842833
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
Thank you for the link crablegs! I appreciate the help. Unfortunately the closest vet on the list is about 75 miles from me. I have to stay on the bus line where the drivers know me and will look the other way when I bring Leo on board as animals are a huge no no. It was very kind of you to try for us, however, and I wanted to say thank you!
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08/26/08 09:01am
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#1843075
LizardFreak*
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Message To: Jacquie624 In reference to Message Id: 1842875
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
I live by Grandrapids where there are quite a few vets. I found another website to you can look at for vets- www.michherp.org/vetlist.html
I hope it all works out.
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08/26/08 01:15pm
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#1843339
Jacquie624
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Message To: LizardFreak* In reference to Message Id: 1843075
I am SO confused about my Mali’s action
Thank you very much LizardFreak! There was one listing that is not far from me at that web site. It’s one I’d already called but will call again in case I wasn’t clear in what I was looking for and the young lady answering the phone misunderstood me. THANK YOU AGAIN!!
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08/26/08 06:22pm
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