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 #1643195


Americanchld
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 Update on Moe

So I started a new thread, to put the old one to rest.

I love green, I feed both inside and outside the tank, just in case he likes one way over another. I like Hoppy’s suggestion that they bond to you.

Anyway today when I when I placing him back in the tank, I notice a long cunky white thing hanging off his belly. Thinking it it might just be something having to do with the substrate, I started to pull it off.

I realized it didn’t come off easily, and when I turned him over I realized he was peeling. It kind of looks like a human peeling from a bad sun burn. (not that moe is pink or red, just that his skin is peeling off like a humans) I think he might be shedding. He also had light green spots on his back, and has been sleeping in his hide both day and night.

Do they not eat when they shed? again I haven’t had a frog long enough for them to shed on me, however I do have leopard gecko. The geckos are more sensitive when they shed, are frogs the same way?



02/29/08  10:24pm

 #1643220


Rrrragdoll
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  Message To: Americanchld   In reference to Message Id: 1643195


 Update on Moe

I’m sure that it is shed, it’s kinda clear and "boogery".

The lime green spots are not good from what I’ve read on other forums, I have never dealt with them in mine. Some type of bacterial infection?

Check out the thread on Melafix, you can get just a small bottle.



02/29/08  10:44pm

 #1643227


Froggy&Gribbit
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  Message To: Americanchld   In reference to Message Id: 1643195


 Update on Moe

Sounds like he is shedding. Do not pull it off as if it isn’t coming off it many not be quite ready underneath and you can risk damage him just like peeling a bit of skin off that isn’t ready on a sunburn.
He might go in the water more often to help the shedding process and he may not eat as much during the shed. Some it stresses a little and some seem to go through the process with no problems at all. He many suck in his tummy at the sides and make almost a convulsing move. He may "yawn" over and over again and rub his body with his back legs towards the front and then his front legs over his head to draw the skin into his mouth as they usually eat the shed skin.

I agree with the bonding process too. I had one of our WTF that came to us very sick with parasites. I spent many hours very close to him working on healing him and to this day we have a special bond. My youngest daughter and I now "share" his care and my oldest daughter has her own WTF. The frogs clearly have a bond with us. They know our touch and voice and are relaxed and comfortable with the one who predominantly cares for them.



02/29/08  10:46pm

 #1643241


MacinMan
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  Message To: Rrrragdoll   In reference to Message Id: 1643220


 Update on Moe

Be VERY careful and VERY quick to treat moe, I had a frog just do the same thing only the skin wasn’t on the belly it was on the back, the green spots are an infection and my frog was dead before I could treat it the spots showed up on mine yesterday, it was dead today. so I hope you catch his in time. Use mela fix, but i have a contact who’s a breeder and he said the most certain way to get good treatment for this type of infection is to take the frog to a vet who deals with reptiles and fish. in fact he said this is a common bacteria in the pet trade, He told me one expierence he’s had with this and other similar things and He lost a full purchase of ten white’s to this type of bacteria, so whatever you do treat the frog fast! be it mela fix tripple antibiotic ointment like neo sporn or if you can get him to a vet, that’s the best bet!. I hope you can save him!



02/29/08  10:56pm

 #1643247


MacinMan
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  Message To: MacinMan   In reference to Message Id: 1643241


 Update on Moe

I’m in the process Of treating my last WTF Gideon who was also exposed to the other two frogs that died from this. However, the positive news is he hasn’t shown any signs of sickness yet. so i’m hoping I’ve gotten him on the mela fix quick enough to prevent this from happening to him, I also bleached the main tank with clorox wipes and rinsed it with hot water as well as everything in the tank and put it all back clean and fresh after all the sick frogs passed, so Gideon has his own clean tank now, hopefully you won’t lose Moe, I’ve just seen two frogs die of this though and for me there was no time for treatment. and the bad part is, this bacteria seems to be as sudden as a heart attack or stroke the frog looks and acts fine, for the most part, then spots then dead frog. so hope for the best and be prepared for the worst..



02/29/08  11:03pm

 #1643270


Americanchld
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  Message To: MacinMan   In reference to Message Id: 1643247


 Update on Moe

The green spots are the color of what he was before. Ever since i brought him home, he started to turn a muddy brown color. But like I said before the spots are his orignale color. Thanks for the concern, but I don’t think its anything to worry about.

However if you still think there is some concern, I will keep an eye on him.



02/29/08  11:21pm

 #1643305


MacinMan
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  Message To: Americanchld   In reference to Message Id: 1643270


 Update on Moe

I would just to be safe, I was in your shoes with the frog that passed yesterday I baught the frog most of the time I owned it 2 months. it only turned green when i handled it or took it out into the sun, even inside in it’s cage with uvb lighting it pretty much stayed brown, it appeared to be a pretty healthy frog, even after my misshap with the sick guy then this condition came upon the frog quite suddenly and without warning. so if you want to be safer, give him a week of mela fix and you may see an improvement, I’m hoping for a good out come for my last wtf as well. and DON"T take him outside to see if he turns green. anyway let us know how he fares. and don’t assume he’s ok green spots on a wtf are NEVER ok., and I learned that the painful way.



02/29/08  11:55pm

 #1646175


Americanchld
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  Message To: MacinMan   In reference to Message Id: 1643305


 Update on Moe

Just like people, I don’t like treated something when they don’t have it. For example if you use the mela fix to often, you will get a bacteria that is resistant to mela fix.

I took Moe to two different places who knows about frogs. Both said that he is alert and active, and looking healthy.

They said he was a little thin, but not too bad. His shedding condition is the reason why he is not eating. And the spots are once again his orignal color. They don’t look out of the ordinary.

So everything is fine. I do however have to keep a count of the crickets in the tank, if he is still not eating anything in a couple of days I’ll take him into a vet. But I think everything is fine for right now.



03/03/08  03:27pm

 #1646514


MacinMan
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  Message To: Americanchld   In reference to Message Id: 1646175


 Update on Moe

Great to hear!, Yeah, I only used mela fix once and the frog I tried to save still died the next day. anyway I’m glad you took moe to a professional who could give you a professional observation, that’s the best solution, If I knew vets who specialized in frogs down here I would have done the same. as it is, I striped the tank washed it with water and vinegar and put all new stuff in it including live pothos, so it’s ready for when I get a new set of white’s.



03/03/08  06:49pm

 #1647217


Hoppy
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  Message To: Americanchld   In reference to Message Id: 1646175


 Update on Moe


It sounds like a shedding to me also...

You will find when a frog is ill they will shed more to rid the toxin or infection so actually a good sign. The concern I do have though is how long is it taken for him to shed... If he is showing shedding for days it would be wise to use the mela fix as there is something underlying...

Is his waste ok?

In right conditions only a couple of hours is needed but this is the process once started. They can go a few days with the skin looking like ready to peel or you may notice a whiter coloration or even a pce of skin torn say....

The lime green is nothing to concern with. The only time these are of concern is if raised to the tough like a pimple etc. It would then be a fungus sign.. Many frogs will show lighter colors of lime to yellow or even white after hiding in a darker place or some just have colored spots that show on and off almost a pigment that comes out with their chemistry..

Only use the mela fix if needed....you are correct on this as its just like with people antibiotics... Abosolutely correct on the assumption it takes its effectiveness when really needed if used carelessly..

Its a good idea though if any sign of illness and you have spoken to an experienced member to ask if using it would help as you want to get to the illness early....

Are you misting?

HOPPY



03/04/08  07:23am

 #1647434


Americanchld
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  Message To: Hoppy   In reference to Message Id: 1647217


 Update on Moe

The shedding around his stomach is gone.

He still did not eat any of the crickets in the cage yesterday, there were still the same amount this morning.

However, I did not take him out yesterday, as I had a meeting I needed to be at.

I have not seen any signs of poop. He has squrited me a couple of times. I only saw poop once and cleaned it up. It looked like a little poop ball and looked wet. (Sorry Im a first grade teacher)

I mist everyday, once in the morning before I leave for work. When I come home, I mist again because humidity is down to 40--48%. Then I check before I go to bed to see if I need to mist again. I only mist if the humidity is not correct.

Since I have leopard gecko’s I do have waxworms and mealworms should I try any of these? Or is there another worm they like to eat?



03/04/08  12:54pm

 #1647660


Hoppy
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  Message To: Americanchld   In reference to Message Id: 1647434


 Update on Moe



It really sounds like something isn’t quite right... How long has he not been eating? I went back to your other post to check a few things...

Is this a new frog? I take from the last post that it is...

Sometimes when first home if conditions are correct they won’t eat for a week. Is it past this?

Though I like outside feedings are you still placing some in his tank for him to hunt? Some that are stressed from travel and new home etc its best to leave for a few days with minimal food say a couple crix then wait a day then another two if those get eaten... Other Whites will eat with gusto first days home in and out of tank. Each frog is different and has its own personality. My concern is stress. Some of these frogs have traveled in a tiny container for days and in a plane with no heat...

Do you have mela fix? Before starting this I want to make sure he’s not just new and settling..

The squirt as you refer is a stress reaction.... The frog to most seems to pee but its actually the extra water they carry so they leave water areas and in time of extreme dry periods. When this happens its vital you get him back to water so they can replenish...In time you will find he comes without any water loss and to you willingly..

The main issue with frogs is heat so double check your temps and insure your substrate temps on the warm side are at least 75f... Try to do things on routine where possible like changing water. This builds trust and familiarity..

HOPPY



03/04/08  03:51pm

 #1647691


Hoppy
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  Message To: Hoppy   In reference to Message Id: 1647660


 Update on Moe


I meant to add; you can try wax worms..

Most won’t except them as they move to slow. The other issue and again a controvercial subject.. I only feed crix.

The only reason is when ill a frog is better off with parasite loads they are accustomed to. In the breeders and wilds they eat crix as their main diet.

HOPPY



03/04/08  04:05pm

 #1647761


Americanchld
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  Message To: Hoppy   In reference to Message Id: 1647691


 Update on Moe

I have had Moe for about 3 weeks.

After I lost Bob, I went into the reptile store, they knew me their. They said I should try the White’s because they were more hardy, and had the same type of set up as the American.

I think I have noticed 1 poop in 3 weeks, which I know is not good, that’s why all these questions.

Moe came from a reptile store, that sells from breeders. The breeders bring them in and the store sells them.

From what I can remember he has only eaten once durring outside feedings.

There are currently 6 crickets in the tank for Moe to eat, these are left in their all the time.

His tank is covered on 3 sides with black trash bag.

Something else, the tank is on eye level with my dog (away from my window). My dog likes to bark and attack the crickets, could this stress out the frog? I might have to move the tank again.

I don’t have Mela fix, but I don’t know where to get it. He has only peed on me 2, not everytime I hold him. When I take him out to feed him he seems mellow.

My temp is measured 1/4 of the way from the top. I will get another temp for the substrate. I do have a UTH and a heat lamp on it everyday.

Water is changed in the morning and feeding happends at 7pm everynight.



03/04/08  04:51pm

 #1648013


Froggy&Gribbit
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  Message To: Americanchld   In reference to Message Id: 1647761


 Update on Moe

YTep I’d move him away from the dog. That would definately stress him. I think I’d also go it changing the water when you go in to feed that way there is less invasion of the tank......... only once a day!!!

Mela fix you can buy in the fish department at walmart.



03/04/08  07:19pm

 #1648692


Hoppy
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  Message To: Americanchld   In reference to Message Id: 1647761


 Update on Moe

I agree on the dog..that could stress him as to him its a predator...

I would get the mela fix for sure even to keep on hand its very cheap around $5..

Do you have guages in the tank all the time? You said a 1/4 of the way up for a reading???

Insure you guages are placed properly: Temp guage should be 3/4 of the way up on the glass on back or side on warm side of tank. Aim for 85f
Humidity guage 1/2 way up on glass below the temp guage... around 50%
This gives the best readings...

If it turns out he is ill then your temps should be 85f all the time. Or even 90f so substrate is much warmer...

Check this and then see if temps need changing. Usually when a frog won’t settle or eat its because something is just not quite right. It can be something so simple. Keep your humidity low say not above 50% for now. Once we know if temps are right etc then we can see on treatment.

Whites eat with gusto like a pig....they generally are very aggressive so yours is ill or lethargic because of temps.

Mela fix can be bought at walmart too (Its a fish medication)... ( Don’t buy perma fix)... there is two types of Mela fix, so buy either if only one is there, if both buy the one for fish tanks (The other is for ponds)..

HOPPY



03/05/08  07:28am

 #1648873


Americanchld
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  Message To: Hoppy   In reference to Message Id: 1648692


 Update on Moe

I will move my tank when I get home this evenning.


the temp and humidity readings are on the same thing, because its digital.

I am going to tank off the black and trash bag and put up green paper instead.

I took off the uv light and have a signal heat lamp on during the day.

I did not mist this morning, to keep humidity below 50%, per Hoppy’s suggestion



03/05/08  11:07am

 #1649077


Americanchld
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  Message To: Americanchld   In reference to Message Id: 1648873


 Update on Moe

I think I should say, as it might help, that his tank is a 10gallon long.

Now petsmart has 20gallon long on sale for $28 and they are usually around $35 or so, here in California.

Would Moe do better in a bigger tank, is that why he’s not settling in?



03/05/08  02:39pm

 #1649208


Hoppy
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  Message To: Americanchld   In reference to Message Id: 1649077


 Update on Moe



Size of tank won’t make a difference when young and as a temporary tank. We use small tanks for sick/quarantine tanks.
Young frogs I reccomend using a smaller tank till they are 2 inches to insure they eat well etc...

Usually its something in the envioronment that isn’t quite right...like heat, humidity, sun heating the tank, something toxic in the tank... All these things should be looked at. Anything from outside like branches etc can be potential danger when unsure what type of branch....

You may find its even just the dog.... See how it goes...

HOPPY



03/05/08  04:20pm

 #1651117


Americanchld
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  Message To: Hoppy   In reference to Message Id: 1649208


 Update on Moe

While taking Moe out to feed him, I noticed a little white thing crawling down into the substrate. It was microscoptic, and like a little white puffy ball. Is this something that could be affecting Moe? Is is a mite of some sort? Should I clean out the substrate and start again?



03/06/08  10:49pm

 #1651302


Hoppy
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  Message To: Americanchld   In reference to Message Id: 1651117


 Update on Moe



A lot of the soils can carry insect eggs that hatch under the warm moist conditions.. I always suggest baking the soils even if they say on the bag sterile like the pet shop type....

It could just be leaf litter insects that breaks down decay and animal waste. This seems to be the most popular amongst the sold sterile soils.
I would start over for sure. Even though some are harmless insects including these leaf litter types they are unsightly for anyone to see.

If you go with soil again... bake it for at least 30 min on 250f..... You could even try doing this with the one you have if not too many insects are seen... ( I know some go as long as an hour in the oven.. Some can be very difficult to get rid of...

I must add by your description I’m not sure if its the leaf litter type. These are usually a white or grey color, tiny. Some have seen them in water... These are mostly known as Springtails. You might be able to google these to see if it looks the same to what you saw...

HOPPY



03/07/08  06:55am

 #1651380


Americanchld
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  Message To: Hoppy   In reference to Message Id: 1651302


 Update on Moe

I think Im going to lose Moe, and I don’t know why. Which is the sad part. I don’t know what I did wrong, so I don’t know how to fix it.

Last night he spent all night in his water dish soaking, and when I got up this morning he was still in it.

Any advice, will he last through the day? I have to go to work.



03/07/08  09:39am

 #1651989


Americanchld
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  Message To: Americanchld   In reference to Message Id: 1651380


 Update on Moe

Moe has now been in the water dish all day. I haven’t seen him frequent it, but I know this can’t be good. All day and night?



03/07/08  07:34pm

 #1652617


Americanchld
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  Message To: Americanchld   In reference to Message Id: 1651989


 Update on Moe

I don’t know how, but Moe seems to be holding on.

Feeding last night, I took him out of the water, I think he ate a small cricket.

This morning I thought I heard some faint barking sounds from him, while holding him. I also checked the cage and more of those crickets are gone too. I will see what happens tonight.

Maybe he will survive after all.



03/08/08  10:14am

 #1652804


Hoppy
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  Message To: Americanchld   In reference to Message Id: 1652617


 Update on Moe


They can be very surprising... As long as eating its a good sign..

The all day in water isn’t the best sign but it could mean that he’s ridding a toxin. This is the only way they can by flushing the system so keep his water spotless...

Keep up hope... If it helps any... I had a sick frog and he didn’t eat for a full two months and never moved . Then he just began after the medications and care and he’s here today... He was ill from transport so had a bacterial infection and was also impacted on spanish moss and bark.. The pet shops here use the darn bark for them... It would slowly come out in his soaks...

HOPPY



03/08/08  01:30pm


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