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 #2041150


Webbyroflcopter
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 Where can i get a bts

im rele looking for a bluey but i dont know where to find them on the internet. i was wanderin if you guys knew of some reliable breeders. thanx alot guys
07/17/09  11:55pm

 #2041190


DGN Reptiles
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   Message To: Webbyroflcopter   In reference to Message Id: 2041150


 Where can i get a bts

Zach over at bluetongueskinks.net just had one of his females (Pearl) give birth to 13 babies. He is very reliable, and so is pretty much everyone over there. I dont know anyone else who breeds them on here right now, but I’ll have another litter next year. Hope that helps.



Danny
07/18/09  03:20am

 #2041206


Joey johnson
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   Message To: DGN Reptiles   In reference to Message Id: 2041190


 Where can i get a bts

I have 3 babies left, if your interested i can send pics and more info. they were born May 27th and are approaching 12" already. The one i am keeping "brut" is already over 12". I have one that has the bowtie scale formation 1-200 scale formation.

e-mail me at and i will send pics and pricing, pricing set to find a home.
07/18/09  06:59am

 #2041537


HerpsinIN
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   Message To: Joey johnson   In reference to Message Id: 2041206


 Where can i get a bts

Go with Andrew Seikes or Ray Gurgui

seikereptiles.com

and

thunderbayherp.com (I believe Ray is having problems with his site. if you want some contact info let me know and I will get it for you).

Both guys are great and sell great animals and are PURE.

The problem with Zach on BTS.net, he does not know the exact history of the animals. Are they pure? Who knows. They dont look like northerns to me. Also, I feel he over charges for less quality animals. Just my opinion, but a normal "northern" is not worth $200 like he charges.
07/19/09  08:54am

 #2041675


Joey johnson
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   Message To: HerpsinIN   In reference to Message Id: 2041537


 Where can i get a bts

Or you can e-mail me for some that are better looking than a "PURE" animal. I know the complete history and can guarantee a better price than others. Main reason for pricing is I am not out to make a buck (not that there is anything wrong with that). I will also NOT sell to you unless I am convinced the lizard will go to a good home. I turn people down if I feel they are not capable, or willing to give great care.

NOTE: the people mentioned in the above post do have a beautiful skinks and are reputable, I am not saying one word about their practices.

while some (alot) think of hybrids as muts and are bad for the species, I dont get it. Evolution begs for it.

botton line, if the Northern Bluetongue skink is put on the endangered species list it would be a bad idea. if there were one northern and one irian jaya left, you tell me would it be a good idea to breed?

once again i am sure to be attacked for this view. so let me have it
07/19/09  03:09pm

 #2041704


Webbyroflcopter
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   Message To: Joey johnson   In reference to Message Id: 2041675


 Where can i get a bts

joey i agree with u completely. i would like to talk to u more about buying, pics, and all that good stuff. i will shoot u an email shortly
07/19/09  03:58pm

 #2041717


HerpsinIN
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   Message To: Webbyroflcopter   In reference to Message Id: 2041704


 Where can i get a bts

Just out of curiousity, how old are both of you two?
07/19/09  04:13pm

 #2041738


DGN Reptiles
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   Message To: Joey johnson   In reference to Message Id: 2041675


 Where can i get a bts

I was trying to avoid getting into the hybrid discussion, but I have to express my opinions.


The thing that annoyed me was that you said the Northern/IJ crosses were better looking than a pure skink. It is, of course, everyone’s opinion. However I firmly believe that a pureblood skink is prettier than a cross. It looks like how nature made it look. I am not against morphs, and I’d be a hypocrite if I was, because I plan on breeding my very orange colored northern to try and produce babies with a similar coloration. I like the orange coloring, but it isnt any better then a northern from the wild. I plan on breeding typical colored northerns as well.


Most bluey breeders arent out to make a buck. They dont exploit their animals, they love and care for them like you would a dog. You HAVE to charge less for a mixed bluey, that’s a given. People charge more for pure blueys because they’re less common, not because they want to make money off their animals. However if you make a bit of a profit doing something you love, that isnt a crime.


Hybrids are mutts. Crossing them isnt bad from an evolutionary standpoint, where they would have to survive. It is bad because we have limited genes. Australia banned exportation, so whatever pure blueys we have is all we are going to get. The more people that cross, the faster pure northerns and other Australian species disappear. Once you cross an animal, nothing the offspring produce will ever be pure again. Maybe if we were still getting exports from Australia, it wouldnt be such a big deal. We should be preserving any animals we have left. If you do get a crossed skink, please DO NOT breed it. It’s just adding onto an already overwhelming problem.
07/19/09  04:46pm

 #2041809


Joey johnson
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   Message To: DGN Reptiles   In reference to Message Id: 2041738


 Where can i get a bts

I am 33

I am a business man(excluding the reptiles)

I agree with alot of what DGN said, In the opinion arena. Still the reasons not to breed still do not hold water for me. I still want numbers on breeding stock of pures in this country,and estimated time it would take to consider the northerns in trouble of not being here anymore.

To me these are the arguments that hold water. If you tell me if I don’t stop now and START breeding my northern with other northerns that the northerns available in the US will not be here in 5,10,15,20 years. This will be something to really think about. Has anyone done a study like this? are there estimates of when they will not be available. The other arguments are basically I don’t like it and I think it is bad.

I guess that is my main question, you say the genes are limited. How limited and where is the data.

either of you can easily shut me up with these hard numbers!
07/19/09  07:09pm

 #2041811


Joey johnson
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   Message To: DGN Reptiles   In reference to Message Id: 2041738


 Where can i get a bts

I am 33

I am a business man(excluding the reptiles)

I agree with alot of what DGN said, In the opinion arena. Still the reasons not to breed still do not hold water for me. I still want numbers on breeding stock of pures in this country,and estimated time it would take to consider the northerns in trouble of not being here anymore.

To me these are the arguments that hold water. If you tell me if I don’t stop now and START breeding my northern with other northerns that the northerns available in the US will not be here in 5,10,15,20 years. This will be something to really think about. Has anyone done a study like this? are there estimates of when they will not be available. The other arguments are basically I don’t like it and I think it is bad.

I guess that is my main question, you say the genes are limited. How limited and where is the data.

either of you can easily shut me up with these hard numbers!
07/19/09  07:10pm

 #2041860


Red Ink AUS
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   Message To: Joey johnson   In reference to Message Id: 2041811


 Where can i get a bts

G’day mate,

There will never be any concrete data out there on how many "Pure" bloodlines there unless they do DNA testing on every single "northern" BTS in captivity, but there are known factors that we may be able to gage a reasonable answer from.

Factors:
I) BTS leave up to 20 + years

II) Aus borders are closed to the exportation of their native fauna for the overseas pet trade (so it should be)

III) Given the above point there is obviously no "legal" way of strengthening genetic lines and diversity for said animal from the original source (what ever is there is all there is)

IV) Now going back to the first point about life span, the borders were closed in the 1970’s prior to that there is no record of how many animals were exported or how popular they were in the pet trade, so the quantity of "original/pure" animals is unknown as well. Needless to say herp keeping as a hobby is more popular now than it was back then on this i think we can all agree. So given that assumption and it is only an assumption without concrete evidence, it would be safe to say that there would not have been a mass export of these animals prior to the border being closed as the demands just simply were’nt there. So most of the "pure" animals would be F1 or F2 due to the life span.

V) Given all these factors i do believe that there would not be that many "pure animals" in the US at the moment with the numbers decreasing every year. So they are in a way an "endangered animal" over there. Given these factors breeders there IMO should be making more of an effort to keep and breed more "pure" animals to keep the bloodline over there rather than "hybridizing" as once a hybrid always a hybrid. I’ll use the analogy of the Siberian Tigers conservationist are trying hard to keep these species alive and NOTE they are not breeding them with Bengal Tigers either to save both species cause none of the offspring can be considered pure of both but a "hybrid". Rather they concentrate on keeping the lines pure. So it should be.

Cheers guys just my rant and opinion on the matter.



07/19/09  09:12pm

 #2041908


Webbyroflcopter
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   Message To: Red Ink AUS   In reference to Message Id: 2041860


 Where can i get a bts

im 16



07/19/09  10:29pm

 #2041913


Webbyroflcopter
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   Message To: Webbyroflcopter   In reference to Message Id: 2041908


 Where can i get a bts

k i could care less if its a cross. if its cheaper thats great. i just want one
07/19/09  10:34pm

 #2042020


Joey johnson
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   Message To: Webbyroflcopter   In reference to Message Id: 2041913


 Where can i get a bts

Webby

You answered one of my screening questions, I would love to sell one of my beauty’s to you but i just don’t sell to anyone under 18. You may be great with animals but it is one of my determining factors.

the next few years you will have a ton of changes in your life and i tend to sell to people who have reached a more stable point. this is not a dig on you! it is a fact.

I also donate animals to educational programs becuase of the value they offer.


now to address the hybrid issue again.

those were great points! but it almost paints a picture of the worse case scenario in which sticking with pure bloodlines is pointless now anyway because there is no way to insure they will be here. Instead we should have all the breeding going on possible to insure that this country has BTS at all.

i am not saying thats the way i feel but that is the picture painted with how limited the trade has become.

i think it is great that some people only breed pures and I hope they keep doing it. it is great for the trade and conversations like this.

KEY QUESTION:
How many lines does everyone involved in this conversation currently have???

one other thing i wanted to address is "I HAVE" to sell for less because they are not pure. My business focuses on sales and i will tell you that you never, never "HAVE" to sell for less unless the market is flooded and everyone sells for less. that is just not the case. I got top dollar last time i did this and left several people disappointed because they did not get one. I choose to sell for less.

If i am able to breed giants in the future, these will not be sold for less
07/20/09  07:29am

 #2042294


Red Ink AUS
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   Message To: Joey johnson   In reference to Message Id: 2042020


 Where can i get a bts

G’day mate,

joey johnson wrote:

Quote:

KEY QUESTION:
How many lines does everyone involved in this conversation currently have???



I have unlimited supply to pure bloodlines of all the Australian sub-species (including locality specific sub-species within the same genus) but non of the Indonesian species. So that may give you a clue as to where I am located.

Cheers,
07/20/09  04:57pm

 #2042383


Webbyroflcopter
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   Message To: Red Ink AUS   In reference to Message Id: 2042294


 Where can i get a bts

joey i understand. but i have been working with animals my whole life. i train police dogs, bomb dogs, and drug dogs, i also work at a kennel. i know the dedication and animal take. it takes me about 8 months to train each police dog. but being that i am only 16 i understand why u wouldnt sell to me. but as u can see i am different than most 16 year olds. most of my time is spent with animals, my band, or girlfriend. i plan on being a vet. so i guess u could say animals will always be apart of my life. any ways thanks for your time. i understand



07/20/09  07:26pm


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