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 #1906249


Nepo
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 Mouse with an R.I.

How do you treat respiratory infections in mice?
Besides feeding it to one of my scaly friends.

Thanks



11/28/08  06:18pm

 #1906522


Manderzratz
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  Message To: Nepo   In reference to Message Id: 1906249


 Mouse with an R.I.

amoxicillin. what cage type and bedding do you use and how often is it changed?



11/29/08  09:52am

 #1906663


Nepo
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  Message To: Manderzratz   In reference to Message Id: 1906522


 Mouse with an R.I.

10 gal. glass.
pine shavings.
I change it whenever it seems soiled.
Which is every couple days since there are a lot of mice in there at the moment.



11/29/08  04:27pm

 #1906745


Rebecca Wright
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  Message To: Nepo   In reference to Message Id: 1906663


 Mouse with an R.I.

if there is "alot" of mice... depending on how many alot is... you should probably be changing it a min. of every other day... especially since they are in a fish tank... glass tanks allow the amonia from their urine to build up quickly which can cause the RI... and other than getting some antibiotic from the vet I cant really say there is anything you can do for the RI... if you dont want to get the antibiotic and want to keep the mouse you can also see if its an allergy... try carefresh or something... GL!



11/29/08  08:03pm

 #1906841


Manderzratz
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  Message To: Rebecca Wright   In reference to Message Id: 1906745


 Mouse with an R.I.

pine is NEVER to be used. aspen only or no wood. pine could be causing the ri. uhm, also 2-3 is max for a ten gallon. there should not be more than that if that many in a ten. and a fish tank should be changed at LEAST thrice weekly to keep ammonia down. so every other day or spot cleaned daily. but yeah, if it’s ri, amoxi. i, at the first sign of sneezes also turn on the humidifier in the pet room. it helps them breathe easier.



11/30/08  12:21am

 #1907016


Jynxer50
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  Message To: Manderzratz   In reference to Message Id: 1906841


 Mouse with an R.I.

I use pine with my breeders. They seem to be fine. I wasn’t going to use it either, but then I saw on a mouse breeder’s website that he uses it with no problem. He showed a picture of the pine, which is the same as I use. It’s worked really well for me. I’ve raised (well, the momma mice) 2 healthy, large litters on pine.

Jake



11/30/08  02:58pm

 #1907297


Manderzratz
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  Message To: Jynxer50   In reference to Message Id: 1907016


 Mouse with an R.I.

honestly though, aspen is very cheap. about the same as pine. or even newspaper shredded up. pine really isn’t good no matter what. i mean when i was a kid i got lucky and had a hamster live 5.5 years on pine. BUT there are so many better things out there now that i’d never use it again. it’s your choice but the female with the ri just may be the first of many. some react more than others so the precaution overall is good. also ris aren’t the only issue. pine damages the liver as well.



11/30/08  11:03pm

 #1907313


Nepo
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  Message To: Nepo   In reference to Message Id: 1906249


 Mouse with an R.I.

Thanks for all the help and all but I don’t think the pine is what caused it.
It didn’t seem to be getting any better so my king got a 2nd helping this week.
She was a good breeder too.

And also, 2-3 mice is not max for a ten gal. This isnt my first go round with breeding mice either, I just never had one get something like she had.

Thank you though.



11/30/08  11:56pm

 #1907356


Manderzratz
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  Message To: Nepo   In reference to Message Id: 1907313


 Mouse with an R.I.

yup 2-3 mice IS max (as a permanent home) for a ten gallon. mice are active and need space. good luck in the future.



12/01/08  02:42am

 #1907740


Jynxer50
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  Message To: Manderzratz   In reference to Message Id: 1907356


 Mouse with an R.I.

Actually, the breeder than i learned from used 10 gallon tanks at first, and he kept 1 male and 4 females in those. And a small bag of aspen cost more than a HUGE bag of pine at walmart. the huge bag that i got was 6.00, and aspen was a little over 6. just my .02.

jake



12/01/08  08:39pm

 #1907828


Manderzratz
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  Message To: Jynxer50   In reference to Message Id: 1907740


 Mouse with an R.I.

well, then that breeder had them in an improper setup. no way should 5 mice be in a 10. though a feeder breeder wouldn’t be too concerned with the happiness/proper setup of the animal i guess. also a 4.0 cubic feet bag of pine is 10 bucks and the same size of aspen is 12.50 at petco or petsmart. it really isn’t much more for something safer. again, even paper towels or shredded newspaper/newsprint are fine. and both of those are cheap. pine is dangerous. it should not be used. i don’t even know why pine and cedar are still in circulation. oh wait, i do. it’s the same reason most if not all small animal food sold at pet stores is trash. because people buy it and all the stores/manufacturers care about is lining their pockets. even if it is more expensive in your area, maybe find another place to get it, or cough up the dough. there is no reason to use something that is harmful. especially not the cost factor being a few bucks.



12/01/08  11:11pm

 #1908267


Jynxer50
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  Message To: Manderzratz   In reference to Message Id: 1907828


 Mouse with an R.I.

Your word isn’t the law. Sorry. How do you know that 5 mice aren’t happy in a 10 gallon? Did ya have a little chat with them? How do you know it was an improper setup? He had food, water, a box for babies, and a wheel. The mice were all very healthy, as he kept it very clean. And ALL pine isn’t necessarily bad. A long time breeder using it is a sure sign to me that it works just fine. He has bred mice for over 25 years, and this pine does a great job covering odors, its not too strong for them. That’s just my experiences. You can’t just preach stuff like that.

Jake



12/02/08  08:41pm

 #1908433


Manderzratz
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  Message To: Jynxer50   In reference to Message Id: 1908267


 Mouse with an R.I.

my word may not be law but i do research into proper animal setups. uhm by putting 5 mice in a ten and putting them in a homemade cage about the size of a forty and seeing the temperament and behavioral differences. mice are intelligent and easy to understand. mice are probably the animal i am most linked to as a whole besides my bun. pine SMELLS nice. the fact that pine HAS A SCENT shows it should not be used. that same scent that makes it smell nice is the smell that the mice can not escape and ends up damaging their liver and causing respiratory issues. ask ANY reputable vet, REPUTABLE NON-FEEDER breeder, or any knowledgeable small animal rescuer. 25 years ago MANY things were different. heck i used pine about 12-13 years ago, i wouldn’t use it in this day and age when so many better things are available though. 25 years ago, if my ferret got sick and was taken to a vet, it would’ve been hard to get decent let alone good exotic vet care. now though, it’s easy as doing a bit of background research on vet websites. things change and people constantly learn new things about pet care. one of the more well known is pine and cedar are dangerous. oh, and let me say-a mouse cage shouldn’t smell. if it does, that can also lead to a uri because of ammonia and means you should be cleaning it more. you know about your herps and i know about mice. so i suggest before you praise one feeder breeder, do more research.



12/03/08  01:43am

 #1908512


Greatballzofire
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  Message To: Manderzratz   In reference to Message Id: 1908433


 Mouse with an R.I.

I use softwood pine shavings for my mice and have had no problems. I get a big 3 cu ft bag, expands to 8 cu ft( America’s Choice, WWW.AWF.com ) at Ace Hardware for $7. My aspen for my reptiles costs $12, almost twice as much. I think the way that problems arise with pine is people don’t change the bedding often enough and the ammonia builds up and causes the respiratory distress. Cedar is too strong smelling and I don’t use that. I change the bedding about once a week, except for mamas who have just given birth, no changes for three weeks so she doesn’t eat her young. Just before the birth I put her in a maternity 58 quart tub with fresh bedding.
A link to another article on liver problems, ect, with pine bedding:
Link


105 quart mouse tubs


58 quart mouse tubs on rack.
I like the Sterilite tubs; easy to clean and plenty roomy. I put up to four mice in the 58 quart size and 5 or more in the 105 quart size.
My mice are in good health. I did have a problem with a RI in some mice from a Petco store, which had been kept on CareFresh, and were sick anyway. I have given my mice a choice of Carefresh or just plain softwood shavings to nest in. They push the Carefresh out of the nest boxes and prefer the shavings! The sick ones recovered, although they are not as vigorous as my other stock, and are quarantined in a separate room. I’d feed them to my snakes if I had a large enough snake to eat them!



12/03/08  10:30am

 #1908750


Manderzratz
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  Message To: Greatballzofire   In reference to Message Id: 1908512


 Mouse with an R.I.

yes i have found mine prefer shavings too. i personally again abhor pine but your enclosures are big enough that ammonia and fecal buildup takes a while. 5 mice in a ten on pine is ridiculous. i think even my mice are jealous of your setups though. they only have 30 gallons each and are solo mice. but yup, mice need space. poor sicky mice though.



12/03/08  07:41pm

 #1908824


Nepo
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  Message To: Manderzratz   In reference to Message Id: 1908750


 Mouse with an R.I.

Quote:

5 mice in a ten on pine is ridiculous


Hahahahahaha. oh. that’s funny.
Years of breeding mice, litter after litter after big healthy litter, and that’s ridiculous.
News to me I’ll tell you that. Well when the other mice get sick or eat each other or stop having babies in my 10 gal’s I’ll get right onto changing it and you will be the first to hear about it.



12/03/08  09:31pm

 #1908854


Jynxer50
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  Message To: Nepo   In reference to Message Id: 1908824


 Mouse with an R.I.

Nicely put. :)



12/03/08  10:35pm

 #1908872


Manderzratz
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  Message To: Nepo   In reference to Message Id: 1908824


 Mouse with an R.I.

well let your mice live to two or three years old. five of ’em in a ten. see if they live that long. i HIGHLY doubt they will.



12/03/08  11:05pm

 #1908930


Nepo
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  Message To: Manderzratz   In reference to Message Id: 1908872


 Mouse with an R.I.

Highly doubt all you want it makes no difference to me.
I retire them way before that and feed them off. And if I didnt feed them off, they’re breeders. After several litters their life spans shorten anyway. If you kept healthy colonies of mice you’d know that.



12/04/08  01:15am

 #1908951


Manderzratz
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  Message To: Nepo   In reference to Message Id: 1908930


 Mouse with an R.I.

i care enough about animals to have them as companions and not breed them since most of my rescues come from people who want to release or kill them since their snakes decided not to be hungry. and i do keep healthy mice. they even as feeders, live at least to 2.5 years old. anyway, that isn’t the point. you wanted advice, it was given. switch from pine. especially if you use small tanks. then you got all pissy. don’t ask for help if you don’t want people telling you how to improve the care of the animals you are asking about. it’s that simple.



12/04/08  01:55am

 #1909245


Nepo
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  Message To: Manderzratz   In reference to Message Id: 1908951


 Mouse with an R.I.

I do appreciate any advice I get when I need it, no matter what.
I’ve been here for years, on the snake forums, and helped many many people.
When I give advice I hate nothing more than the people who just disregard it after asking questions.
Wasting everyones time.

But listen, since the pine works for me, and I have never had any mouse get sick on it before, and since the 10 gals SEEM to work for me and they’re not eating each other or their babies, then that’s not what I’m going to change.

Maybe this mouse was just old. I don’t know. A couple of these mice I adopted from the shelter I volunteer at and that mouse was one of them. Or maybe it was something we just haven’t ruled out yet, something not mentioned.

Either way, I thank you for your help, but I believe I’m caring for my mice just fine.



12/04/08  05:44pm

 #1909353


Gottee guy
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  Message To: Nepo   In reference to Message Id: 1909245


 Mouse with an R.I.

i used pine once,before i knew it was bad, and it killed 3 of my mice and 1 snake within a couple weeks of using it. when i changed to 1/2 aspen 1/2 newspaper there were no more deaths.. i haven’t had a substrate related death in a couple years, in mice.



12/04/08  08:03pm

 #1921019


NetBSD
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  Message To: Gottee guy   In reference to Message Id: 1909353


 Mouse with an R.I.

not mouse related but i have a male rat here that had a bad RI and was on pine shavings, switched him to aspen and it went away. pine has ALOT of dust in it so i guess thats what caused it, my female rat and my mice all did fine with pine tho



12/26/08  11:37pm

 #1927073


Flameethrower
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  Message To: NetBSD   In reference to Message Id: 1921019


 Mouse with an R.I.

if you have to stick with pine go to Equine Fresh Pine Pellets used for horses. its dust free and 100% biodegradable for compst when soiled. its 7$ for 40lbs bags. i use it for my mice and you never smell any of them. and cleaning is done every 14 days. i keel 1.2 per tub



01/05/09  08:47pm

 #2270880


Lani123
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  Message To: Flameethrower   In reference to Message Id: 1927073


 Mouse with an R.I.

All 5 mice in that picture look to be affected and sickly. Cull, treat, or get to the vet ASAP.



06/22/12  03:10pm


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