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 #2311197


Socrates
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 Big Problems

Hi,

Have a big problem with my Tai beauty. He hasn’t eaten for over 6 months and has lost a lot of weight. His back bone is very noticeable right now. Also, when he’s handled he’s no strength and just flops around. We haven’t changed anything, his temperature in the viv may be a bit on the low side, but I’m wary of burning him by having his heat mat to hot. He’s 11 years old.
I’ve tried different foods, inc chicks, rats, mice and other small mammals, but nothing arouses his interest even slightly. Does anyone know if they can or do suffer from a neurological issues?

Thanks for any help or advice



12/07/14  08:02am

 #2311199


Takahiro111
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  Message To: Socrates   In reference to Message Id: 2311197


 Big Problems

Any living thing like animals and humans can have neurological issues but I don’t think its that but how’s the setup?? And I can tell he’s sick maybe an infection of some sort hopefully not an RI becausw you mention your temps being low. You don’t have to worry about him getting burned if the temps ar correct,can’t directly touch the heat source or have a heat rock. He should have a hot and cold side so he can regulate him body temps when neccessary. Beside how he’s acting what’s the symptoms besides underweight and lethargic??



12/07/14  08:31am

 #2311200


Socrates
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  Message To: Takahiro111   In reference to Message Id: 2311199


 Big Problems

I took him to a couple of local pet shops and they looked him over, checked in his mouth for any signs of untoward and it was ok. His viv floor has a warm end that is at about 85 degrees with a cold end at about 60 degrees. Got to say, he always feels cold to the touch so it may be that it’s too cold for him. Do you think that would make him act all lethargic and refuse food? Other than that, I’m at a bit of a loss



12/07/14  08:56am

 #2311202


Takahiro111
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  Message To: Socrates   In reference to Message Id: 2311200


 Big Problems

Its okay these things can be confusing :) what I can tell you outta experience is don’t go to a petstore for any advice they’ll tell you anything to sell a product so its better to google or ask on forums. When they go and stay on the cooler side its either to cool down maybe for breeding or the hot side is too hot. And they just looked in his mouth that doesn’t mean its not nothing wrong with him. Him being to cold can make him lethargic which can lead to hypothermia and shock but I would take a fresh poop to the vet in a sealed ziplock bag with the date he pooped on it for a stool check and discuss the symptoms because lethargic, weight loss and refusal to eat is serious and its something wrong internally(meaning inside his body). The reason he’s lethargic is because he’s too weak and sick and him refusing food isn’t making it better so don’t force feed.



12/07/14  10:20am

 #2311203


Takahiro111
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  Message To: Socrates   In reference to Message Id: 2311200


 Big Problems

Its okay these things can be confusing :) what I can tell you outta experience is don’t go to a petstore for any advice they’ll tell you anything to sell a product so its better to google or ask on forums. When they go and stay on the cooler side its either to cool down maybe for breeding or the hot side is too hot. And they just looked in his mouth that doesn’t mean its not nothing wrong with him. Him being to cold can make him lethargic which can lead to hypothermia and shock but I would take a fresh poop to the vet in a sealed ziplock bag with the date he pooped on it for a stool check and discuss the symptoms because lethargic, weight loss and refusal to eat is serious and its something wrong internally(meaning inside his body). The reason he’s lethargic is because he’s too weak and sick and him refusing food isn’t making it better so don’t force feed.



12/07/14  10:22am

 #2311261


FloridaHerps01
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  Message To: Takahiro111   In reference to Message Id: 2311203


 Big Problems

Humidity is also a factor to consider when looking at cage setup. Humidity that is too low or too high can cause issues for any snake. I don’t know the specifics of Taiwanese Beauty Snakes, but this can easily be found online.

As mentioned, a mouth check does nothing. Ironically, exactly one year ago, Dec 9, 2013, I acquired an Eastern Hognose Snake. The snake was underweight and exhibited symptoms similar to your snake, bones showing, very lethargic, staying on the cold side of the cage. I attributed the cool side to the snake being WC and trying to stay cool. The snake never ate, even as I increased temps, and died mid-April. During a necropsy it was found that the snake had a parasitic nematode infection. As time went, I lost two more snakes to the same parasitic nematode which I have managed to determine uses my food source, Southern Toads - the natural prey of Eastern Hognose Snakes, as a host animal.

If the snake is still defecating, even if not eating, which the snakes I lost did, collect a fecal sample and have it examined by a veterinarian. If they are a herp-vet, they can give you further advice. Even if they don’t know what they are doing, they have the tools to conduct and knowledge of how to do basic fecal examine. Ask them to scan for parasites. From here, attempt to identify the parasite - which can allow you to seek a solution to the problem.

Sometimes though temperature is just the sole cause of the problem. Western Hognose Snakes are typically kept with a high end of 85 Fahrenheit as you have your cage. Sometimes individuals that refuse to eat will begin once you make the cage much hotter than you would except for a very select few species of animals. Be careful if you do this though, the natural history of Western Hognose Snakes and their natural environment allows them to evolutionarily withstand excessively hot temps that would kill or harm many snakes. I do not recommend, and advise strongly against passing above 100 degrees Fahrenheit for any animal. If 100F is exceeded, the owner of the animal must be willing to accept any injuries or loss-of-life of the animal as their own fault.

Another veterinary option is to consider force feeding to make the snake regain weight and nutrition. This must only be done by a vet, or with careful instruction by a vet. If done improperly force feeding can result in injury or death of a snake. If done properly however, force feeding can be life saving. Regardless, it is extremely stressful on the snake, which can also result in the death of the snake.



12/09/14  07:46pm

 #2311301


Socrates
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  Message To: FloridaHerps01   In reference to Message Id: 2311261


 Big Problems

Thanks for your advice, n real change in Rex since last week, I’ve now offered him different food, the last time he tried to strike at it bu then failed to eat. As it is I’ve offered him some thing today and once again, he’s just not interested. Temps are fine, humidity is ok, at a loss really. He’s still drinking which has got to be a good thing, but apart from that, we’ve no herp vets close by. I’m contemplating asking a local zoo for some more specific advice. I;ll keep you updated if anything changes.



12/12/14  09:23am

 #2311452


Cphill58
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  Message To: Socrates   In reference to Message Id: 2311301


 Big Problems

What are you attempting to feed ? And what size?

I have had issues with King Snakes and other species at various times. 1 trick is to place a smaller than normal rodent (frozen thawed or pre killed) in a small tupperware so the snake is in very close proximity to the food. Then since thai beauty snakes are rather reclusive place the tupperware in the dark (paper bag... box) whatever you can to make it dark and warm ( at least 80F ) Allow the snake and the food item to remain together overnight. You can try this method 2 or 3x a week , of course you need a new rodent each time.

trick 2

Open a can of tuna and use the liquid inside to get the head of the rodent wet ... Make a tuna sandwich and have lunch ... as you wait for the snake to eat. Not necessarily in that order ...but you get what I mean.

trick 3
brain the rodent... pierce the skull with a sharp enough object...and get the grey matter to spill out and on the fur.

If this snake is stressed out it may refuse to eat. Often times Beauty Snakes are imported from wild caught poachers and unsavory over seas captors. You may have issues if this is the case.

Wishing you all the luck... they are amazing when they thrive ...I have seen some large 6-7 foot examples in a friends possession.

PS ...never hurts to try a pinkie mouse ...just to get it started...or a fuzzy...a lizard may be just what it needs also???



12/19/14  09:04pm


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