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 Member  Message

 #2311710


Coolkidpat
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 Monitor Suggestions

Hey everyone, I have had a Savannah Monitor for over a year now, he was about a half a year old when I got him, and is almost full grown. He is also very tame, I worked with him everyday for a year, hard work really pays off. I wanted some suggestions on what monitor I should get next within the next year or 2(after I did my research and have put away money for a large terrarium for an adult). I want something that can become docile like a Savannah, but slightly bigger. I have heard Argus Monitors are quite fast and can have quite an aggressive personality, regardless of taming sessions. But BlackThroats are a bit bigger than what I want for right now (although in a few years, I would look into one).

Please post your personal suggestions on a monitor ranging from 3-5 feet and a docile personality. Any responses are appreciated. Thanks!



01/07/15  10:05pm

 #2311713


Takahiro111
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  Message To: Coolkidpat   In reference to Message Id: 2311710


 Monitor Suggestions

I know my suggestion goes beyond your lizard size but a water monitor is cool if you spend time with it :) I have a 7-8’ male and despite his large size he’s like a puppy. I don’t think a tegu is a monitor but argentines are amazing too, males being large as 4-5’...mine is 4 1/2’ and as docile as it can be.



01/07/15  10:58pm

 #2311759


Lizard_of_Oz
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  Message To: Coolkidpat   In reference to Message Id: 2311710


 Monitor Suggestions

Quote:

I wanted some suggestions on what monitor I should get next within the next year or 2(after I did my research and have put away money for a large terrarium for an adult).



What exactly is a large "terrarium"?

Quote:

I want something that can become docile like a Savannah, but slightly bigger.



Any monitor lizard will appear docile if they are not kept in proper conditions, that is they will appear docile until they die prematurely. I’ve seen monitors that were labeled "docile" and "tame". But after a half hour of living in a proper set up enclosure, they were anything but tame or docile.

Quote:

I have heard Argus Monitors are quite fast and can have quite an aggressive personality, regardless of taming sessions.



Argus monitors will appear tame and docile too, if kept incorrectly. But if you keep it in the right conditions, I highly doubt you’ll be wanting to force handle an Argus monitor unless you are a glutton for severe punishment. They have a ferocious food response that makes a Savannah seem like a tortoise.


Quote:

But BlackThroats are a bit bigger than what I want for right now (although in a few years, I would look into one).



Argus monitors usually get bigger than Blackthroats, or at least very similar size . I would recommend neither until you have come to a mature understanding that monitors are not docile nor tame.


Quote:

I have had a Savannah Monitor for over a year now



What kind of enclosure do you have your Savannah in? Is it a female or a male? Healthy monitors that are kept in the right conditions are not "docile". Maybe you’re looking for a different word as "docile" would mean submissive, unassertive, compliant. Things a healthy monitor is not.


Quote:

taming sessions



Defined as?





01/09/15  04:07pm

 #2311761


Coolkidpat
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  Message To: Lizard_of_Oz   In reference to Message Id: 2311759


 Monitor Suggestions

Thank you Takahiro for the suggestion! I will look into tegus, I never really did research on them haha. And didn’t know they could get that big.

Lizard of Oz:
I’m not here to get criticized and "taught"
clearly I know monitors in a bad set up will appear docile. I’m not going to discuss my set up, as it has no relation to my topic

as to the docile factor: When comparing a Crocodile monitor and a Nile monitor to something like an Ackie monitor or a Savannah monitor, most people would tell me if I’m looking for docile/easily tamed, I should go with the latter options.

And about Argus/BT comparison, I have already stated I didn’t do much research on them, and that I’m not looking at them as an option right now, so again this really has nothing to do with my topic.

With your input that Argus monitors are agressive eaters, I stated that in my original post, so again your input is not needed

And with you stating "Force handling a monitor" as an option, I will kindly ask you to get off this post. I believe in positive reinforcement as my strategy for taming.

Your whole post was unnecessary and provided no feedback on my question, and instead I find it insulting that you deem me as an idiot. I’ve done my research, I’ve talked to many people, and my monitor is currently growing at a very good rate. So kindly leave my page and don’t bother responding unless you have useful info. Thanks :)



01/09/15  07:20pm

 #2311774


Takahiro111
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  Message To: Coolkidpat   In reference to Message Id: 2311761


 Monitor Suggestions

Your welcome the females are just smaller but argentines are known to be more calmer out of tegus....and for the person that commented above monitors can be calmed if keeped correctly...its possible depending on the indiviual because my 4’ sav and 7-8’ water monitors both live in a cage wayyyy big enough for them with the correct temps,humidity and diet and their really calm enough not to be listed as a domesticated pet. Someone bought me and adult male argentine tegu as a gift and he’s nice too. Golden tegus are hard to care for and columbians are less docile and is very confused with the argentine. But I know you can care for them lol do your best and tell me what you suggested I don’t mind helping again :)



01/09/15  10:02pm

 #2311949


Norf
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  Message To: Coolkidpat   In reference to Message Id: 2311761


 Monitor Suggestions

Quote:

Any responses are appreciated. Thanks!


Quote:

don’t bother responding unless you have useful info. Thanks :)


Love that...

Quote:

Argus monitors usually get bigger than Blackthroats


Oh man, since when?

Haha ok enough messing around.
Pat, V. Dumerilii may fit that bill. Pretty much 100% wild caught like Exanthematicus. I wouldn’t call them ’docile’ or anything but they seem to be pretty mellow guys. Or V. Acanthurus and pretty much 100% CBB. Ackies are little fireballs that I’ve heard are quite rewarding captives.
Now I don’t know what your ’taming’ methods are but if it has anything to do with prolonged handling sessions and being out of the enclosure for extended periods of time you may have to rethink your practice before getting deeper into the hobby. Most species of varanid are pretty forgiving to husbandry fault but don’t get too confident with it.
The purpose of an enclosure is to mimic the animals natural habitat so they can live in there and not only survive but thrive.
Most monitor keepers build custom enclosures for their lizards. My argus is in a 10’x6.5’x8’(lwh) enclosure and I swear it’s still too small. I’ve had him for coming on 8yrs and he’s just over 4ft.
What about your sav? What’s a ’terrarium’? No fish tanks I’m sure?



01/17/15  09:46pm

 #2315601


Raptorman
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  Message To: Coolkidpat   In reference to Message Id: 2311710


 Monitor Suggestions

I dint know if anyone can help me.I have a mangrove monitor and i bought to 50 watt halogen flood bulbs.They are about 7 inches away from the basking sight and its not hot enough.I keep reading to use them kind of bulbs bud its not hot enough.Can some one give any suggestion thanks.



11/08/15  02:51pm

 #2315606


3240
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  Message To: Raptorman   In reference to Message Id: 2315601


 Monitor Suggestions

Does the enclosure have an open top?



11/08/15  05:18pm

 #2315609


Otto Glott
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  Message To: 3240   In reference to Message Id: 2315606


 Monitor Suggestions

If the enclosure has an open top, just cover at least half with plexiglas and drill a few holes for venting. This type of enclosure is a to work with but its okay for a hatchling contrary to a few who believe otherwise.



11/08/15  06:37pm

 #2315611


3240
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  Message To: Otto Glott   In reference to Message Id: 2315609


 Monitor Suggestions

No it’s not ok. How many hatchlings have you raised in open top enclosures with a high wattage bulb? What does covering half a 55 gallon tank do? Nothing. Why drill holes in the plexiglass when half the top is open?

Cover the entire top and place a low wattage bulb inside of the enclosure.



11/08/15  07:21pm

 #2315613


3240
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  Message To: 3240   In reference to Message Id: 2315611


 Monitor Suggestions

Here’s how simple it is. This is a raise up cage for varanus kingorum. It’s a small tank with a very low wattage bulb mounted on the inside. The top is completely covered. They worked great.

[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/04crocinjury015j]

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[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/04crocinjury016j]

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11/08/15  07:33pm

 #2315614


3240
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  Message To: 3240   In reference to Message Id: 2315613


 Monitor Suggestions

[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/05aaagradient019j]

[/URL]
[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/0qaaagradient008j]

[/URL]



11/08/15  07:36pm

 #2315617


Raptorman
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  Message To: 3240   In reference to Message Id: 2315606


 Monitor Suggestions

No its a cage i built with a closed top the cage is 4x2x3 foot LWH. I dont know if i should get a higher watt bulbs.



11/09/15  11:14am

 #2315618


Raptorman
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  Message To: 3240   In reference to Message Id: 2315614


 Monitor Suggestions

It does have two holes for the dome lights but they are cut perfect just to fit the dome lights in and the rest is closed .The encloser has all the joints siliconed so it will hold heat.



11/09/15  11:24am

 #2315626


Raptorman
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  Message To: 3240   In reference to Message Id: 2315613


 Monitor Suggestions

My mangrove is not a hatchling Its about two years old.But even in a enclosure that is 4x2x3 foot LWH you still want to use a low watt bulb like that for the basking site.It just seems like its not hott a nuff.Pluse im haven truble keeping the temps in the enclosre up its all sealed up really good.The top is closed off besides the holes for the dome lights



11/09/15  04:00pm

 #2315627


3240
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  Message To: Raptorman   In reference to Message Id: 2315626


 Monitor Suggestions

What are the basking temps?



11/09/15  05:34pm

 #2315629


Yaksha
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  Message To: 3240   In reference to Message Id: 2315627


 Monitor Suggestions

Do you have a way of measuring the temps. if not get a temp gun and increase the heat bulb from there....



11/09/15  05:54pm

 #2315634


Raptorman
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  Message To: 3240   In reference to Message Id: 2315627


 Monitor Suggestions

They are about 120 .Ive read so many diffrent things i know mangroves like it hot and i just build this enclosre.Im trying to get everything right.



11/10/15  06:43am

 #2315636


3240
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  Message To: Raptorman   In reference to Message Id: 2315634


 Monitor Suggestions

Was the basking temp taken with a temp gun? That’s the only accurate way to do it. Try a small increase in the wattage of the bulb and see what happens.



11/10/15  07:04am

 #2315637


Raptorman
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  Message To: 3240   In reference to Message Id: 2315636


 Monitor Suggestions

Yes it was. thanks for the info



11/10/15  07:07am

 #2315643


Otto Glott
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  Message To: 3240   In reference to Message Id: 2315611


 Monitor Suggestions

You gotta stop spreading your misinformation, especially after I have provided solid resources confirming my way of housing a hatchling varanid. The way you talk makes you sound crazy. I own an argus, I am having a very nice enclosure built, not a trash can with a shitty structure built over it like you, that is costing me $500 tops. I don’t know or like you and you have harrassed me way too much. Have you published any work? When? With whom? If not, I suggest you step down and realize what ever you tell me is meaningless otherwise. You are probably going to continue to spread your sloppy, amateur ideas around, that is okay, but leave me out. You do things your way and I’ll do as I learn from real research provided by true varanid keepers. I am not an expert either, but the only thing you got on me husbandry wise; is I am using an aquarium with a scrren top. I am no longer coming here, most information I need has been provided by Fiona’s breeders, real boooks like "Varanoids of the World" or even BIAWAK; if you even know what that is. The people I have spoken to feel you may even be a 12 year old kid pushing ideas around, I don’t know but what I do know my way is a combination of many people’s ways and your way is not the right one for me. Thanks for nothing, I’m oout for good.



11/10/15  08:35pm

 #2315644


3240
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  Message To: Otto Glott   In reference to Message Id: 2315643


 Monitor Suggestions

Otto is back!!!

Yes Otto, you’re right, I am a 12 year old amateur, with three teen children (how did that happen!) and no one knows me. All of the names you keep dropping are people that I know and speak with. You’re asking people about me? Do you even know my name?

You are a moron. A 35 year old moron. Funny, I actually thought you were a kid until you mentioned your age. My way is the same way as those you keep mentioning. We all compare notes. It’s not rocket science, and I’m guessing by your posts that you’re not a rocket scientist, it’s common sense. You are butchering the advice given by experienced keepers like Justin (Krusty).

I’d like to see your BOM for a $500 10x5x5 enclosure. I’m guessing you don’t have one because you’re pulling a number out of your a**. I think you’re upset because you know I’m right. I’ve dealt with so many people like you that I’ve lost count. People who get all bent out of shape when they’re presented with facts.

Go ahead Otto. Go on another rant about how you read an article in reptiles magazine (how old an issue?) and now you’re an expect. An expect who asks beginner questions and flips when you don’t like the answer.

I’m also curious, please share a list of a few of my sloppy, amateur ideas. Oh yeah, I’ve been a Biawak subscriber since, if memory serves, 2007. How about you?

You’re out for good? That’s what people do when they don’t know what they’re talking about. They get tired of being presented with FACTS, that they can’t counter, so they bail.



11/10/15  09:05pm

 #2315645


3240
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  Message To: Otto Glott   In reference to Message Id: 2315643


 Monitor Suggestions

Otto,

Since you keep referencing Krusty’s (Justin’s) Reptiles Magazine article on argus monitors, I finally read it. Here’s a couple of paragraphs, from Justin’s article, on proper housing/enclosure:

"Argus Monitor Caging
Because an adult male Argus monitor can reach up to 5 feet in total length, caging for adults usually involves construction of a custom vivarium that is no smaller than 8 feet in length by 4 feet in width. Height can vary, but I strongly recommend at least a 5-foot-tall enclosure, with 2 feet of substrate in the bottom. This would be the minimum enclosure size for an adult male Argus monitor.

I typically construct my Argus monitor cages out of plywood and wooden support beams. Alternative caging could be a metal cattle watering trough with a wooden box constructed over the trough. Onto the wooden top portion you could insert a pre-framed window or custom glass sliders for access to the inside of the enclosure. This would result in a very functional and pleasant-looking vivarium for your Argus monitor.

Argus monitors are very adept at digging tunnels and refugia within the cage substrate. I offer several large logs, hollow cork tubes and stones firmly affixed to the cage bottom or walls to prevent collapse and possible harm to a digging lizard (and the Argus monitor is a natural-born digger)."

Hmmm...sound familiar?



11/10/15  10:29pm

 #2315646


3240
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  Message To: 3240   In reference to Message Id: 2315645


 Monitor Suggestions

Glad I checked out Justin’s articles Otto. Here’s another paragraph on hatchling argus:

"I don’t recommend an all-screen top for an Argus monitor habitat. The constant convection of heat and humidity out the top of the cage is inefficient and dehydrates the young lizards. It’s better to have a good portion, if not all, of the top of a terrarium closed up and allow for a small amount of ventilation from the sides of the cage."

Hmmm...sound familiar?



11/10/15  10:35pm

 #2315647


3240
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  Message To: Otto Glott   In reference to Message Id: 2315643


 Monitor Suggestions

Here’s another one Otto. A post that Krusty made, on this forum, in 2007:

"Feed young Argus crickets, superworms and pink mice,etc until their bellies look distended. Feed adult Argus similarly til full with mice, smaller rats, chicks,etc. Watch the habitus of the monitor that it looks fit and not bony or obese. Generally my adult male Argus eat 3-4 chicks or mice every other day. There is no chart or ratios. They eat like champs and you will likely underfeed vs. overfeed an Argus monitor."

Approx 12+ mice or chicks per week. Do you still think these are cheaper then ackies?



11/10/15  10:42pm

 #2315648


Otto Glott
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  Message To: 3240   In reference to Message Id: 2315647


 Monitor Suggestions

I was right deal with it .



11/10/15  11:27pm

 #2315651


3240
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  Message To: Otto Glott   In reference to Message Id: 2315648


 Monitor Suggestions

Otto,

It’s everything that I’ve been telling you to do. Justin and I do it the same way, I’ve been doing it like this for 20 years!

You were right about what?



11/10/15  11:33pm

 #2315654


Otto Glott
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  Message To: 3240   In reference to Message Id: 2315651


 Monitor Suggestions

There is nothing wrong with my husbandry, you know nothing about the cost of my custom enclosure and your obsession with my business is kinda scary. You also don’t know my finances so how the hamster brain do you have the right to accuse me? Your pictures looked built poorly by an amateur DIY quick job,1200 wasted.



11/10/15  11:38pm

 #2315656


3240
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  Message To: Otto Glott   In reference to Message Id: 2315654


 Monitor Suggestions

Yes Otto, they’re very amateurish enclosures. The large enclosures have no concrete slab. They’re simply filled with dirt that goes all of the way to China. There are 8’ deep footers that go well beyond frost line. Buried 4’ - 5’ feet below the substrate are radiant heat pipes. Covering those pipes is wire mesh so the lizards can’t keep digging. I can control the temperature of the actual substrate using my radiant heat system. I can soak the ground and it drains naturally since there is no slab. All of my large enclosures are built like this and they work perfectly. So perfect that I don’t have to dig up lace monitor eggs. They incubate for 270 days in the enclosure substrate and hatch in the enclosure. It took me awhile to dial these in but they’re damn near perfect. I have over $100k into these, "DIY quick job enclosure" as you put it.

Here are a couple of the enclosures as described above:

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Each enclosure has access to the outdoors during the summer. It’s closed off once it gets to cold:
[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/eyzbn8gsj]

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This is the boiler for the underground radiant heat system:

[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/65lacies0313bhj]

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Can’t wait to see your enclosure Otto. I bet it puts my "amateur, DIY" enclosures to shame!

Actually, what I’m obsessed with is your complete lack of knowledge or a plan.



11/11/15  12:00am

 #2315658


Otto Glott
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  Message To: 3240   In reference to Message Id: 2315656


 Monitor Suggestions

Nice pictures from the web, now you claim to read minds? How do you know my plans? When are you gonna move on to the next new person and harass them? You’re insane and I’m retarded for continuing to argue with 12 year olds.



11/11/15  08:11am

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