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 #2270266


Dillonh24
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 Large Monitor Question

I am trying to talk to wifey into letting me get a new monitor (a larger one). She has offered to buy me one of few specific monitors (as a father’s day gift) that we have talked over.I have explained size, food, space, etc to her and she understand what we are commiting to. The list is pretty narrow simply because of where we live in CND and haven’t had any luck in the past shipping them in from the U.S. The list is: Varanus Salvator Salvator, Varanus Niloticus or Varanus Ornatus. We were looking for a Varanus Albigularis Albigularis or Varanus Ionides but we haven’t found an Albigularis and Tanzania stopped exporting Ionides. She is leaning more towards the Salvator because they have one of the "better" temperments.
She is hoping though that because we go hunting so often if we could use some of the meat we have collected from hunting to feed the monitor. Stuff such as Deer, Moose, Turkey, etc. I didn’t know about this because I don’t see it having all the nutritional value of whole prey unless dusted with a calcium suppliment but it would certainly save on food bills. And I don’t feel like leaving a deer carcass in the enclosure although Salvators have been known to eat carrion.



06/17/12  02:21am

 #2270271


Dillonh24
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  Message To: Dillonh24   In reference to Message Id: 2270266


 Large Monitor Question

I know that these are normally WC which I hate but I was hoping to breed them along with my Savannah. We are looking into getting a male for her at the moment as well. We recently came into some money so we are looking to turn the 1000 square foot basement into my monitor area. I am looking to have the two savannahs in a there own 8 x 4 x 4 enclosures with a removable barrier in the middle so I can keep them seperate except for breeding. As for the larger monitors I was looking at a 15 x 10 x 10 each with the same removable barrier in between when I get a pair. I am only going to get one at the moment and figure out the sex of it then find the opposite sex as well. As for the wife we are looking into getting her a trio of Ackies.



06/17/12  02:37am

 #2270277


Dp525
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  Message To: Dillonh24   In reference to Message Id: 2270266


 Large Monitor Question

in regards to your preference I’d run through the post on this site and breeze through the experiences of different owners. I have an Ornate I adopted from a moron. I say adopt a monitor if your experienced; other than that I’d say reach out to members like Krusty and Gator. Asian water monitors seem to be very rewarding in temperament. Now, the question about the meat from you hunting... This will be fine in theory... I have fed several of my pets in the pest raw wild meat. There’s one catch; please make sure that where ever the entry and exit point of the medium used to take down the prey animal during the hunt is in NO way contaminating the meat used...When wild meat is used for animal feeding that is sometime over looked. Game meat is healthier and has the naturally acquired nutrients (fiber based) to support a carnivores diet. I buy and feed my mice a natural diet to ensure that they have a high calcium, high fiber, high protein diet to support my monitors health. fiber is an over looked aspect of herp and is a necessary aspect when looking at the whole consumer producer food chain ( basic biology class fact). Everyone is still learning and your wife is on the money with her suggestion, but make sure you do the math and be cautious of bacteria. freeze the meat for three days to ensure that certain bacteria (name to long to type) are definitely dead. a three day rotation schedule of meat freezing is a challenge, but in my opinion is more of a tedious meat chopping chore than anything. in addition, please consider adding predatory mites (that are commonly used in green houses as well to your cage before feeding wild caught, these mites are proven safe and will be preventive maintenance to any mites that wild items may carry, If you forget to freeze and just through the meat in there. I use them in my quarantine tanks when grabbing adoptions and they work well. In addition please invest in natural wormers as well Canada is way better with obtaining pet care items than the US. I say this because you have a captive animal so this means its going to live considerably longer. The advantage with feeder animals is the assurance that the herp owner has that the prey item is a healthy animal. which i will always say is great for the pet trade. My Ornate has a crustacean based diet with mice making up 15% of it and fish making up 20%. (this diet is accurate to autopsies of this species in the wild and to the regions it inhabits).. In my opinion wild caught meat is great only if the monitor species in the wild would have the opportunity to come across such an item. In other words dont take the fact that they are opportunistic to far and assume you can feed anything. just because you feed it whatever doesnt mean that it isnt slowly dieing on the inside. for example I know that no one in their right mind would eat Mcdonalds every and and thing that their totally gonna live to 80 years old. Semi aquatic monitors have semi aquatic natural diets. I mean for whats it worth economical will always come first. My view will always be challenged but right is right and wrong is wrong. The animal you purchase is an individual that deserves the care that you would prefer if you were in its shoes. It seems like what ever monitor you decide to aquire will be a lucky one.. I apologize for the long response and hope many other add their VALID opinions and experience. Happy Fathers Day everyone...



06/17/12  08:21am

 #2270313


Dillonh24
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  Message To: Dp525   In reference to Message Id: 2270277


 Large Monitor Question

Thanks for the post! I found it extremely insightful especially about how to go about with the wild game meat. I know if I get a salvator that it will get a varied diet of crustateans, fish, mice and meat. I myself am leaning towards a salvator anyways simply because of as you put it their "rewarding" temperment.

Happy Father’s Day guys!



06/17/12  02:34pm

 #2270372


Crocdoc
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  Message To: Dillonh24   In reference to Message Id: 2270313


 Large Monitor Question

The big problem with feeding a monitor plain, raw meat as a large part of its diet is that it’ll develop MBD and other issues after a while from an insufficient balance of protein, calcium, vitamin D3 and other vitamins/elements in its diet. It’s always best to base the diet mostly on small whole animals, with raw meat making up a very small proportion, even if it is inexpensive and/or readily available.



06/18/12  12:09am

 #2270375


Dillonh24
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  Message To: Crocdoc   In reference to Message Id: 2270372


 Large Monitor Question

Yeah I was still planning on feeding a mostly mouse and other small prey diet but I was just wondering if it would be okay to feed the meat I caught as well. I was still planning to use a calcium/multivitamin suppliment when feeding the raw meat anyways to make sure to avoid MBD.



06/18/12  12:21am

 #2270409


Krusty
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  Message To: Dillonh24   In reference to Message Id: 2270375


 Large Monitor Question

Even if you dust various pet shop minerals and stuff onto meat, you are gambling with nutritional BALANCE and completeness. Nobody knows exactly what is a ’complete’ diet for a Monitor, not me or anyone. Feed whole animals, whatever type you can get cheap/easy, and don’t mess with a whole lot of carcass scraps. Will a few feedings a month of meat/feet/tongue/hearts or whatever kill them? No, of course not. If you do it for a month straight, very likely will start going down a bad path. Feed WHOLE ANIMAL PREY and make your life easy keeping the Monitor healthy. I’ve written this post 100 times in a year and still have to repeat it almost daily. LOL WHOLE SMALL ANIMALS and/or INSECTS is proven to work on almost all species kept in captivity.



06/18/12  11:41am

 #2270502


Dp525
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  Message To: Krusty   In reference to Message Id: 2270409


 Large Monitor Question

@krusty, Only thing is; is that there is also no conclusive evidence of whole prey being a cure all and perfect diet either. but as a basic practice for monitor owners who aren’t hardcore I can sponsor that theory with no problem in order to spare the health of monitors in the wrong hands. but when an experienced individual has developed well enough I feel to rule out any specific husbandry with a disease warnings is too harsh. I say this because not all whole prey is created equal you and I both know that. of course you know that with pinkies you stillllll have to stuff the guts. No difference that loading meat. Now my thing is, is that a monitor is an opportunistic hunter as you well know and quite frankly a carcass is a hell of an opportunity. matter of fact 70 % of alllllllllll captive monitors are obese from over feeding ( and of course everyone is in denial about there monitor needing old school Phen Phen,,lol). the advantage of wild caught is that the prey item has a solid fiber based diet not one laced with manufactured chemical feeds. I mean wild caught is a holistic route with balance being a definite issue only if care isn’t taken as with anything. chopped meat powdered with bone meal, and a cell (vitamin supplement spray) works very well, oh and lets not forget the D3 blah blah, (but i provide real sun for my monitor). I feel where your coming from but once again its not fair advice for those who have the opportunity to provide an optimal and enjoyable diet. it not all about feeding response for some of us. I mean if I lived in a box instead of roaming free I’d want more than chicken wings; a little steak and a porkshop wouldn’t hurt...lol.. And I know good well that know one better assume that rats and white mice frequent in large quantity (with the exception of select parts of asia during heavy harvest months). Salvators gorge off of fish not mice in the wild along with human garbage. Mice are good because of the accessibility for herp owners and I guess I’m extreme because I break my neck to match my monitors care to its habitat. You also cannot claim whole items are better when they add stress to the digestive track of any animal that eats frequently. That fact is common among most reptilian species. It’s about a varied quality diet not an easy one the monitors didn’t ask to be dragged hear or made into gucci belts. I’m for heavily mixed diet and I love the wild option and recommended heavily, but I doubt any monitor in the wild could have cared less about not eating a lab mouse. when I do buy a mice i load them up for two weeks on fiber and high protein high vitamin items. Its not about easy its about being a top Varanus parent.



06/19/12  02:08am

 #2270521


Dillonh24
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  Message To: Dp525   In reference to Message Id: 2270502


 Large Monitor Question

I know my Savannah loves her varied diet. I like to change it up weekly so sometimes she gets crickets 5 days a week, fish once and mice once then the next week it could be 6 crickets one crustatean, and just keep it switched up because I want it to vary as much as possible. This way she is getting plenty of different nutrients from all different types of food items which I find has kept her healthy and growing like a weed in the time i have had her. Same would go if I get a Salvator it would get insects as a baby then get into mice, chicks, crustateans, fish, raw meat (with the added suppliments) and whatever else I could find for it to eat that would vary the diet some more but is still a healthy/reasonable choice.



06/19/12  03:05am

 #2270542


3240
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  Message To: Dp525   In reference to Message Id: 2270502


 Large Monitor Question

You keep mentioning fiber. Are you saying that a high fiber diet makes for high fiber meat? How do you categorize feathers and fur?

You also discuss mimicking a natural diet which is nearly impossible in captivity. In the same paragraph you mention that human garbage is a part of the natural diet of a water monitor. Do you recommend feeding garbage?

Whole prey items cause stress to the digestive system? Really?

There IS conclusive evidence that a whole prey diet is effective and healthy. You’re correct, it’s not a "cure all". There’s more to keeping these animals healthy than diet alone.



06/19/12  11:23am

 #2270605


Crocdoc
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  Message To: 3240   In reference to Message Id: 2270542


 Large Monitor Question

Dp525, how many monitors do you keep and how long have you owned it for?



06/19/12  11:08pm

 #2270667


Shaneluvsmonitors
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  Message To: Crocdoc   In reference to Message Id: 2270605


 Large Monitor Question

Dp525...

i think your missing a bigger point... There not wild...

The fact is the whole food approach works for every species of monitor kept in captivity...

while ive seen your approach kill hundreds of monitors...

They do great for a few years... then crash...

Im yet to see one make it past 3 on that diet...



06/20/12  06:00pm


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