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 #2090605


Dazza12345789
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 Old and bold?

Hey,

I posted this i while ago but my thoughts have changed slightly.

I knew my melinus was a shy species but from what other people said they were not the ’shyist’. I went wrong by putting a little one in a big cage - it makes him feel secure but not the best for me as a captive!! I see him on weekend at about 12pm but as soon as he sees me he pegs it and i dont see him again that that day or that weekend.

One of my ideas was to catch him in a net (too quick for me to grab) and section of his cage so it would be smaller so he could get used to me... i thought this would be too harsh as he is used to the space and he would also hate me forever! My thought now is i could get some car window tint so i can see in but he cant see out - i would of thought that this would make him feel more secure and therefore be out more. Would this work or not?

Im not really fussed on the whole interaction thing as i think its a bit late anyway and if i done the net idea he would never trust me! So i suppose my question is if i put the tint up whilst he is young, when he is older, would i be able to take it down and as he would be bigger, he be bolder and let me watch him and possibly tong feed etc.?

Sorry if i babbled on a bit but i wanted you to get the whole picture!
Cheers
-Daryl
11/01/09  01:35pm

 #2090703


Nelson jacobson
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   Message To: Dazza12345789   In reference to Message Id: 2090605


 Old and bold?

i’m interested in the tinted window idea for cages. never thought about it. makes sense.



11/01/09  05:57pm

 #2090735


Sdslancs
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   Message To: Nelson jacobson   In reference to Message Id: 2090703


 Old and bold?

Why would you ’not’ want them to see out of their cage? I guess if you want to keep them ’wild’, it would work, but if you want any kind of relationship with a monitor (what’s the point of having them in a cage in your house, if you don’t?), they need to be able to see you and see you often. Not in a threatening way, but so much so, that they eventually act normally while you’re in their presence.
Unless you plan on a breeding project, I can’t see the point of keeping one solitary animal in a cage, with zero interaction from it’s keeper.
Even if you’re planning on breeding them, it would be better if they were comfortable around you and less stressful on them too.
Giving him more privacy, doesn’t sound like the best plan, if you want him to gain your trust and be more comfortable around you.



11/01/09  07:18pm

 #2090774


Nelson jacobson
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   Message To: Sdslancs   In reference to Message Id: 2090735


 Old and bold?

yes it is good to have the animal comfortable around people. however if I wanted to open up a zoo/restaurant I think they would be great. This way the animals would not have to be harassed by the disrespectful visitors. I still think this tinted window cage thing is a good idea. not for every situation of course.



11/01/09  08:09pm

 #2090800


Sulfurboy1o3
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   Message To: Nelson jacobson   In reference to Message Id: 2090774


 Old and bold?

We purchased ours together around the same time. It’s just going to take you longer then it took me. Give yourself some more time and just see how things end up. The kick to this ’taming’ gig is that it might take weeks, months, years to come around the way you want it to, possibly even be a ’sucky’ captive forever. After I made and posted the youtubes on interaction with my melinus, it set off a jinx and how I barely see him, and if i do, he seems upset. I have no idea what threw him off agian, back to square one for me.

Jesse, went with the window tint idea...but the argue with that subject has already popped up. Having the animal see you suddenly appear might scare it more.

The net idea >.<, you sound like a poucher hahaha.
Your cage remodel would be the best idea, and work from there. OR you can just hold off on all this and just wait until he grows into the cage.



11/01/09  09:17pm

 #2090839


Sulfurboy1o3
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   Message To: Sulfurboy1o3   In reference to Message Id: 2090800


 Old and bold?

May I ask if you let him eat live prey at all? Like small mice/rats?



11/01/09  10:21pm

 #2091015


Dazza12345789
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   Message To: Sulfurboy1o3   In reference to Message Id: 2090839


 Old and bold?

Thanks to everyone who got back to me!

Susan, the main reason i wanted him not to see out of his cage is so he could not see me and i thought i would never be able to see him otherwise. But i do agree now, it would be pointless having a captive reptile and never having any interaction, i just thought it was completely out of the question but now i understand that he could eventually get used to me with time. Thanks for you input, it made me see other wise!

Nelson, it would be a good idea for a restaurant type thing, good idea!

Sulferboy, thanks as well. I guess yours and Susan’s post kind of relate. I will have to be patient and see if anything will come out of it... i have my Ackies for the time being that i am able to interact with so i suppose waiting a year or two wont kill me if i could eventually interact with him, ive just got to let him be! Best of luck with your monitor, it seems from other keepers that the species may be shy when young but when older they are a lot braver.

Ha, yeah that is why i decided against the net idea... did sound a little bit harsh!!!! Im going to use your idea and have hides up high and add a lot more branches and foliage and let him grow into it.

I have never fead live pray. As i never see him eat i do not like the idea of a live mouse hiding inside the cage somewhere and if i ever try insects that move, he shows no interest. I have see your youtube vids when you feed live, why do you ask?

Thanks again to everyone,
Cheers
-Daryl
11/02/09  12:05pm

 #2091022


Joe Kahn
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   Message To: Dazza12345789   In reference to Message Id: 2091015


 Old and bold?

I have raised quite a few Rhino Iguanas.For the first couple of years, they acted scared, and I never handle them.When they get to about 3 1/2’, they become more secure and will hand feed, and let me do whatever I have to in their enclosures with out moving away. I think it is about the same with monitors. When they stop feeling like prey, they get confident.
Joe
11/02/09  12:36pm

 #2091032


Randy Clark
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   Message To: Joe Kahn   In reference to Message Id: 2091022


 Old and bold?

I wouldn’t tint. Chances are, depending on your setup, even though he may haul but to cover when he spots you he is still watching you. So eventually your presence hopefully be perceived as a threat.



11/02/09  12:59pm

 #2091079


Dazza12345789
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   Message To: Randy Clark   In reference to Message Id: 2091032


 Old and bold?

Cheers, i reckon it would be roughly the same as Iguanas, it is all about them being confident and feeling secure around you. I always get that feeling that i am being watched when im trying to find him through the glass! Occasionally i find a little head popping out of the rockery that i have in the cage or coming up from behind a log, then, as soon as we catch each others eyes... he is off!

Thanks again
-Daryl
11/02/09  02:29pm

 #2091167


Sulfurboy1o3
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   Message To: Dazza12345789   In reference to Message Id: 2091079


 Old and bold?

Yea, my usual live food items are little lizards and mice. I get really paranoid with having wiened and adult mice running around since they are capable of creating a burrow just as fast as monitors.
I would recommend rat pinks/pups and pink /fuzzie mice, live. Keep them in a deep bowl that they can’t get out of.

This is not a quick process;
The idea is to have your monitor develope a feeding responce and of course, leaving something laying there dead won’t trigger that. Now the thing is that hopefully he will tackle and get really worked up when around live foood. You can easily starve him for a few days and put live food in to get a responce. (in time you can try this)My animal will usually lick the glass when I hold food in front of it, maybe you can get that going. I’d keep on trying and trying because you will fail multiple times.
There are details I probably left out.

For many animals, the hunting and eating process is when they are really vulnerable. To get an animal to trust you at this time will open many doors. MDF shows how his monitors will lunge at food and from there he can lift them up, nearly do almost anything with them.



11/02/09  05:12pm

 #2091294


IamLegend
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   Message To: Sulfurboy1o3   In reference to Message Id: 2091167


 Old and bold?

Even though im more of a small snake, or small lizard kind of guy, I just wanted to say that this is a very interesting read. A lot of good points are brought up, and I cant wait to hear all of you elaborate on what works and what doesnt. When I have more time and space later on, I will probably invest in a monitor. This is after college and all.... So im just looking through the window from now, and soaking all this info up!

Thanks

Matt
11/02/09  10:08pm

 #2091381


Sdslancs
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   Message To: IamLegend   In reference to Message Id: 2091294


 Old and bold?

I’m a little confused about the ’live feeding’ post. Are you recommending he starts to feed live, after his monitor is completely fine and thriving on f/t? Are you also suggesting that feeding live will help his monitor develop trust in him?
This goes against everything I’ve learned ,or been told, so was just looking for clarification.
Does Mark recommend feeding live, in order to gain their trust and become more interactive?



11/03/09  07:39am

 #2091489


Dazza12345789
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   Message To: Sdslancs   In reference to Message Id: 2091381


 Old and bold?

With the live food, if i would, i would choose the bowl technique but im still not that fussed on feeding live, seems too cruel for me. I can feed frozen no prob as i know if it wasnt mine it would be someone else’s reptile eating them but a live one could be someones pet!

I will stick to being patient and just add to his cage and hope for the best! The food up to the glass never works with me, he just stares and by the time i try to get into his cage he is gone, i will keep on attempting it though as i have not tried it in a while, thanks.

I agree that they are vulnerable with food, he has tong and hand fead when i first got him and he happily came to the door for it but recently, nothing.

Glad you like the post, Matt. I agree that it has very interesting things posted... i have learnt a lot!

Here is a study i have found on Melinus’, thought you might like to have a look: http://www.cites.org/eng/cop/11/prop/43.pdf

Im looking forward to hearing a reply to Susan’s response,

Thanks again
-Daryl
11/03/09  01:22pm

 #2091684


Sulfurboy1o3
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   Message To: Sdslancs   In reference to Message Id: 2091381


 Old and bold?

Sdlancs, I was recommending Daryl to get the animal to have a responce towards (any)food, period. Then to use that responce(feeding live or f/t by tongs) to get an animal to think passed being scared and be more on a one track mind, food or hunger. Then once his animal is taking food on site, he can take advantage of that. <>complicated
Mark doesn’t recommend live, but I think thats because his animals will already chase and go after food willingly.

I understand that his animal is doing fine off of what he is currently feeding, it’s just another method tossed out there for Daryl to possibly attempt. I wasnt recommending to toss in anything he can’t handle and also stated to use small rodents that aren’t wiened yet in a bowl. Many monitors seem to really enjoy live, so it’s more of taking that in and trying it out.



11/03/09  09:20pm

 #2091688


BansheeRacer25
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   Message To: Sulfurboy1o3   In reference to Message Id: 2091684


 Old and bold?

I agree, Khai. My one monitor is pretty timid untill it sees live food. I actually gained a bit of trust with this monitor tossing in live food. It would eat out in the open with me watching. With f/t i woudlnt usually witness feeding just missing mice. I do not feed anything that could chew on the monitor.

If your going to throw live food in a bowl do what khai recommended it would be the best bet. Hearing a live mouse squeeling really stimulates all my herps.



11/03/09  09:25pm

 #2091882


Dazza12345789
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   Message To: BansheeRacer25   In reference to Message Id: 2091688


 Old and bold?

Cheers, Khai and Bill, i appreciate the extra advice with the live feeding. I understand now that if i do get any sort of feeding response going i can take advantage and if live food will get than done, i might give it a go!

I have found that chopping up a mouse also stimulates him a little more, the smell of blood just gets him going! Would there be any other advice on getting more of a response going?

I do the hole, "putting tongs onto hand so monitor walks up hand" method with my Ackies and they just jump on my arm whenever i open the cage, so if i can get any sort of feeding anxiety with my Melinus, i would do the exact same thing.

Thanks again,
-Daryl
11/04/09  12:06pm


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