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 #1830466


Bsm
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 Heres some fun

I always here people saying that all animals should kept pure in order to protect pure bloodlines, i personally don’t see a problem with crosses except if its a completely different species like a blood python and ball python.
I see some dangers in crosses like that pure species of one or both of the animals may disappear in the pet trade in time if there are not lot of those species available. Crosses or any other captive monitor will not be released back in the wild so whats the big deal. That s the way i see it if there are enough people breeding the pure there shouldn’t be a problem.
The next problem is what is considered pure as even if they were wild caught they could of crossed with a similar species in the wild. Look at the gouilds/panoptes complex they are found in the same area and it gets hard to tell them apart in those areas(maybe those are crosses) see what im saying.
Another thing to consider is for example lets look at the gouilds/panoptes complex or tigers(subs)there almost the same animal but have evolved different adaptions over time to fit that particular environment.
so what due i think a pure species is definitely not 50/50 or 75/25 or even 87.5/12.5 maybe but i think after the 4th generation (93% and up) they should be considered a pure species.
just to make this clear when i say tigers im talking about that big cat nothing else

for monitor crosses
shoot out any others

1. argus/flavi, etc in that complex
2. gillen /cudo
3.mangrove/blue tail
4.nile/ ornate (not sure)
5. black/white throat
6. mangrove/yellow melinus (heard about)
7. black/ green tree
8. kim rock/ pilabra rock
9. yellow/red ackie (not sure)
10. waters subs

this is gonna be a fun subject this is what i get for staying up for 2 days with only 10 hours of sleep altogether lol
but seriously what u think about that
while i try to get some sleep for today then go digging for the dirt and leafs
wonder who’s gonna take this one serious hahaaha
remember its an opinion nothing else, i m not claiming anything
08/14/08  07:39am

 #1830689


Krusty
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   Message To: Bsm   In reference to Message Id: 1830466


 Heres some fun

Be careful believing people’s posts saying that monitors integrade like that. More than likely they are FOS based on real data from the field that’s available. These animals occupy niches and generally do not just mix because they are near one another.
08/14/08  12:29pm

 #1830735


Krusty
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   Message To: Krusty   In reference to Message Id: 1830689


 Heres some fun

Where have you heard of or seen a V. glauerti and V. pilbarensis hybridizing???
08/14/08  01:05pm

 #1830841


Bsm
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   Message To: Krusty   In reference to Message Id: 1830735


 Heres some fun

i wasn’t applying that they hybridize in the wild all the time but it can and might of happened sometime. It could explain some things in some areas about being extremely hard to tell apart. Not including reptiles i know they have found hybrid cats,dogs, bears, dolphins, whales and some others in the wild that what i was basing it on.
Remember i am not really serious on that aspect only on what is considered pure, can you call it pure if you bred it back to one of the animals for 4 generations and should they be made if theres enough stock in the us/anywhere to portect the pure lines

i heard about the kim/pilabra rock a couple years ago, i think it was a guy in CA or AZ who bred them. I remember that they were saying that it got bigger then pilabras and smaller then kims but he might of been fos as he never posted pics to some one who was interested.



08/14/08  02:29pm

 #1830861


Krusty
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   Message To: Bsm   In reference to Message Id: 1830841


 Heres some fun

I know you’re just making conversation and it’s not serious, but what are you asking when you say "it was bred back 4 generations"? Are you meaning like when EBV talks about a 50/50 sand x argus being crossed with a pure sand and now it’s a 75/25 sand x argus or whatever??? If so, no - it’s now a cross and you can see it in them anyway if you know what each species looks like. I think that’s what you’re asking. I wouldn’t worry about having or obtaining crossed species animals if you like them and they are more affordable etc. It’s a pet and it’s in the US. Keep and breed what you like man! It’s a hobby and should be fun. But to those with rare dwindling species in hand, i would be hesitant to cross my Kingorum (for example) with anything else if you can obtain more Kingorum to get a few in the states. Once they are gone here, they are gone. AUS is not going to open the doors again I don’t think like before the late 1970’s.
08/14/08  02:46pm

 #1830880


3240
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   Message To: Krusty   In reference to Message Id: 1830735


 Heres some fun

Krusty,

FR claims to have crossed these years ago but wasn’t happy with the outcome.



08/14/08  03:07pm

 #1830930


Bsm
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   Message To: Krusty   In reference to Message Id: 1830861


 Heres some fun

you hit that head on krusty but ebv is only 2nd generation what if you bred it to 2 more times to pure flavi you would get 93% sand/ 7 % argus and it would probably look completely like a flavi compared to the other crosses.



08/14/08  03:52pm

 #1831166


Crocdoc
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   Message To: Bsm   In reference to Message Id: 1830930


 Heres some fun

Quote:

Crosses or any other captive monitor will not be released back in the wild so whats the big deal. That s the way i see it if there are enough people breeding the pure there shouldn’t be a problem.


The biggest problem is that people start selling crosses as ’pure’ species because they get more money for them and before you know it, no one knows whether or not the animals they are buying are pure. This is already happening with flavirufus/panoptes over your way. Then in a few years people will be crying on these forums for Australia to allow the export of CB animals so you can get some new, pure bloodlines because you’ve ruined the ones you had. Ain’t gonna happen.

Quote:

Look at the gouilds/panoptes complex they are found in the same area and it gets hard to tell them apart in those areas(maybe those are crosses)


They’re not crosses and are quite distinct species. Lace monitors and heath monitors in my area share a number of similarities, so a lay person would not be able to tell them apart. That doesn’t mean they are crosses, though, and experienced monitor people have no trouble at all telling them apart. I have seen people confusing gouldii and panoptes in certain areas, but when I’ve seen the animals they’ve either been one or the other rather than a cross.
08/14/08  07:36pm


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