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 #1341397


Ericjames
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 Best sav substrate

Iím having some trouble. whats the very best thing possible, and would a sphagnum peat moss/sand mixture being temporarily acceptable?



07/01/07  03:28am

 #1341408


Koddie
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  Message To: Ericjames   In reference to Message Id: 1341397


 Best sav substrate

5 to 12 inches of dirt would be best for your sav.



07/01/07  04:03am

 #1341413


Ericjames
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  Message To: Koddie   In reference to Message Id: 1341408


 Best sav substrate

plain old dirty dirt?



07/01/07  04:10am

 #1341644


Reedie
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  Message To: Ericjames   In reference to Message Id: 1341413


 Best sav substrate

The dirtier the better, trust me! Just make sure that it holds moisture, is borrowable, and has no pesticides, poisons, etc., etc.

-Reed



07/01/07  01:05pm

 #1341650


Shiftylarry
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  Message To: Reedie   In reference to Message Id: 1341644


 Best sav substrate

Dirt is what they live on. It would be neat though if Africa was one giant sand dune.



07/01/07  01:10pm

 #1345242


Ericjames
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  Message To: Shiftylarry   In reference to Message Id: 1341650


 Best sav substrate

Quote:

It would be neat though if Africa was one giant sand dune.



It would be neat if Africa was a 6 foot wooden box...



07/04/07  06:22am

 #1345514


Reedie
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  Message To: Ericjames   In reference to Message Id: 1345242


 Best sav substrate

You donít plan on keeping the monitor in a 6x3x3 itís whole life do you?

-Reed



07/04/07  01:22pm

 #1345593


Ericjames
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  Message To: Reedie   In reference to Message Id: 1345514


 Best sav substrate

6X3X4.



07/04/07  02:28pm

 #1345775


Reedie
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  Message To: Ericjames   In reference to Message Id: 1345593


 Best sav substrate

The bare minimum cage size should be an 8x4x7 with three feet of dirt. A6 foot cage should not be used as a permanent encloure...EVER!!!!!!

-Reed



07/04/07  05:11pm

 #1345781


Ericjames
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  Message To: Reedie   In reference to Message Id: 1345775


 Best sav substrate

alright. ill take that into consideration when i build his permanent home.



07/04/07  05:15pm

 #1346185


Reedie
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  Message To: Ericjames   In reference to Message Id: 1345781


 Best sav substrate

Okay, you can look up the thread "How to Cages" by Shay_. That is a great cage design on that thread, it is the one Iím useing.

-Reed



07/04/07  11:29pm

 #1346210


Sidbarvin
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  Message To: Ericjames   In reference to Message Id: 1345781


 Best sav substrate

Great, Youíll "take it into consideration". Consider the fact that the size reedie mentioned is considered minimal. Minimal is not ideal. Obviously an African savanna is the ideal, but seeing as how we hold these animals captive, not by their choice, donít you think itís only right to provide them with at least what they need to thrive, not simply what is convenient. They live and thrive on and in dirt in the wild. The rule of thumb for cage size is the length of the monitor wide and twice the length of the monitor long, MINIMUM. Savanna monitors average four feet in length. Do the math Albert. What fun is an unhealthy monitor, with some crappy peat or moss that it has no understanding of, crammed into a six foot box that it cant even comfortably turn around in. Sounds more like a coffin than a cage to me.

Roger



07/05/07  12:00am

 #1346347


Ericjames
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  Message To: Sidbarvin   In reference to Message Id: 1346210


 Best sav substrate

Quote:

you can look up the thread "How to Cages"


Yea Iíve read that thing over and over and looked at the pictures. Itís a pretty amazing enclosure. Iíve been going to home depot a lot looking around at everything to see what my best options are.

Quote:

Do the math Albert


So far everything Iíve seen you write is condescending in some way. Donít talk down to people. Not like if I have a 6 foot tank, and the monitor reaches 4 feet itís the only thing Iím ever going to be able to build... The thing is only 6 inches long right now. I have a little while to consider my options. If you want to help me, try being somewhat friendly. Iíll be more obliged to value your opinions if you donít throw them at me with an attitude trying to make me feel stupid.



07/05/07  03:08am

 #1346733


Teh 0wnerer
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  Message To: Ericjames   In reference to Message Id: 1346347


 Best sav substrate

Quote:

The thing is only 6 inches long right now.


Not for long buddy.



07/05/07  01:36pm

 #1346735


Teh 0wnerer
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  Message To: Ericjames   In reference to Message Id: 1346347


 Best sav substrate

Oh, I forgot.

Quote:

So far everything Iíve seen you write is condescending in some way.


Sometimes itís the only way to get things into peopleís heads.



07/05/07  01:38pm

 #1347024


Ericjames
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  Message To: Teh 0wnerer   In reference to Message Id: 1346735


 Best sav substrate

Quote:

Not for long buddy.


Iím fully aware that it can get over 4 feet long in a year.
I donít respond well to a condescending attitude, so if someone wants to get something into my head, that wouldnít be the way to go about it...



07/05/07  05:20pm

 #1347091


Sidbarvin
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  Message To: Ericjames   In reference to Message Id: 1346347


 Best sav substrate

I donít make anyone feel anything at all. People feel the way they feel due to their own self image. I donít have that kind of power.
First off Ericjames, you ask if itís ok to feed dog food to a monitor and we say no. To us this question says NEWBIE. Thereís nothing wrong with being new to something and asking for advice, I personally do it all the time. So since you say you "already know how to take care of it" and in reality you donít, because now youíve changed your tune on your latest post, "sav not eating" or some such. When other members saw that you were likely inexperienced and inquired about your husbandry you quickly shot them down with some snide remarks of your own. Reread your dog food thread carefully if you feel the need to accuse me of being condescending. After that, reread your other thread titled "sav and eating" and see if you can say with any amount of honesty that everything Iíve written has been condescending in some way. You could possibly have avoided the predicament your sav is in right now had you not snubbed the ones asking about your setup a week ago. Do yourself a favor before you make yourself look any more foolish and reread all your threads.

It really does not matter to me if you value my opinions, since I donít post any opinions here. Any advice Iíve given has been taken form others on this forum, put into practice by me, and found to work. They are facts that many other keepers with a whole lot more experience than myself have shared, proven facts.

Hereís another one for you and Iíll stop the rant. I donít want to help you, I would like to help your monitor. If you want to help it as well, you shouldnít attempt to dictate the form the help comes in. Good and useful information is just that, regardless of the tone in which it is delivered. I must admit that I have tendency to become a bit abrasive when it comes to certain attitudes, but believe me if you are so easily offended and wonít take advice because of the attitude of the ones giving it, you will miss out on a whole lot of wisdom held by some very experienced members of the monitor community.

Roger



07/05/07  06:03pm

 #1347092


Mdf
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  Message To: Ericjames   In reference to Message Id: 1347024


 Best sav substrate

Are we show this one is going to be a 4 footer?, canít he just make them as he goes a long?, Iíve made three cages so far on his second week in the latest.


13/06/07


23/06/07 (10 days growth)


I might have to make a 4th.................



07/05/07  06:04pm

 #1347112


Shiftylarry
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  Message To: Mdf   In reference to Message Id: 1347092


 Best sav substrate

He could, but not everyone lives on a house with massive acreage and a lot of living space. I mean how many posts have you seen where people are planning to build a bigger cage in the near future?



07/05/07  06:17pm

 #1347159


Mdf
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  Message To: Shiftylarry   In reference to Message Id: 1347112


 Best sav substrate

True....i lost the garage, the car is outside.....



07/05/07  06:38pm

 #1347165


Mdf
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  Message To: Shiftylarry   In reference to Message Id: 1347112


 Best sav substrate

True....i lost the garage, the car is outside.....



07/05/07  06:39pm

 #1347176


Mdf
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  Message To: Shiftylarry   In reference to Message Id: 1347112


 Best sav substrate

True......I lost the garage, the car is outside.........
mdf



07/05/07  06:42pm

 #1347179


Mdf
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  Message To: Shiftylarry   In reference to Message Id: 1347112


 Best sav substrate

True......I lost the garage, the car is outside.........
mdf



07/05/07  06:43pm

 #1347181


Mdf
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  Message To: Shiftylarry   In reference to Message Id: 1347112


 Best sav substrate

True......I lost the garage, the car is outside.........
mdf



07/05/07  06:44pm

 #1347183


Mdf
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  Message To: Mdf   In reference to Message Id: 1347181


 Best sav substrate

sorry had some trouble posting..please forgive.......



07/05/07  06:46pm

 #1347254


Ericjames
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  Message To: Mdf   In reference to Message Id: 1347183


 Best sav substrate

Quote:

You could possibly have avoided the predicament your sav is in right now had you not snubbed the ones asking about your setup a week ago.


Oh yes, my monitor stopped eating because i got in an argument with you sidbarvin. I took the advise i was given about his tank the day it was given to me, and it was given to me the day i posted that, so that argument has nothing to do with my monitor eating.



07/05/07  08:05pm

 #1347591


Sidbarvin
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  Message To: Ericjames   In reference to Message Id: 1347254


 Best sav substrate

You seem to be missing one small detail my friend; the fact that this forum records dates and times of posts. Again, i ask you to reread your threads. You sidetracked the real issues for three days on the first one.

The fact of the matter is, that your savís loss of appetite has nothing at all to do with any argument with me and everything to do with your lack of know how when it comes to monitor husbandry. The critter was eating, at least thatís the impression youíve given, and now it is not. It is a husbandry issue plain and simple. So do your monitor a favor, get over yourself, and spend some time straightening it out rather than wasting time bickering with me.

Here you are again. Get a temp gun. You seem to have dialed in a good range of ambient temperatures, but you need to accurately check the surface temp of the basking area. Start out with basking temp of 120. Watch the critter. If it seems to spend most of itís time basking raise the temp 10 degrees. You must pay attention to what the animal is doing and adjust accordingly. Provide plenty of tight hides throughout the cage so it feels secure wherever it needs to be within the range of temps. Donít mess around attempting force feeding and mucking with it as this makes the problem worse by adding stress to an already stressed monitor. If it continually attempts escape by nose rubbing and clawing at the glass, it is missing something or something is wrong in itís environment. There many variables; humidity too high, humidity too low, same with temps. Read KAP10KAVY,s care sheet in the care sheets section on this forum. If the problem persists after you have achieved and maintained proper conditions, take it to a vet as the problem may have gotten to a point where proper husbandry alone will not remedy it.

Roger



07/06/07  01:55am

 #1347651


Ericjames
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  Message To: Sidbarvin   In reference to Message Id: 1347591


 Best sav substrate

I havent seen him rub his nose on the glass at all, and if anything the humidity is too high, Ill get a humidity gauge for the tank too.



07/06/07  03:23am

 #1348095


Sidbarvin
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  Message To: Ericjames   In reference to Message Id: 1347651


 Best sav substrate

My guess is that it has more to do with stress than anything. Youíve been making changes to the cage, handling it, and attempting force feeding. Also, you have no way of measuring the basking area temps. Monitors know when to eat and when not to eat according to available temperatures. If the basking area is not hot enough, the monitor knows it cannot process ingested food properly. The meal will rot in itís belly without the heat required to metabolize properly. As far as humidity, If you see a lot of condensation on the inside of the tank, and it does not dry out, ventilate it, if not, leave it alone if the dirt is somewhat moist, not wet.

Obviously this is all speculation on my part since I am not there to see whats going on.

I have a small water monitor in a 55 gal fish tank right now. The substrate is as I mentioned, pretty moist but not wet. I see some condensation near the substrate on the cool end but no írainí dripping from the top or dripping down the glass. I dont guage humidity, if the dirt is moist the monitor finds what it needs. It will hydrate in a burrow.



07/06/07  02:42pm

 #1348125


Shiftylarry
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  Message To: Sidbarvin   In reference to Message Id: 1348095


 Best sav substrate

Sidbarvin, do you keep tropical monitors with higher humidity requirements? Iíve found with my black roughneck, that if there isnít condensation on the glass, the humidity is usually below 80%.

Also, random question about water monitors. Donít know much about them since Iíve never even considered getting something that big. Any, I was wondering, since their distribution is so wide if there are different humidity requirements that have been observed between the different locals and subspecies. I know that different subspecies are said to have different temperments, but what else is different? Also, do you think the subspecies will ever split off into new categories like v. ornatus?



07/06/07  03:10pm
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