Your Reptile and Amphibian Resource and Information Site

Back to Horned Lizards Forum   Forums   Home   Members Area  

Horned Lizards Forum

Girly K   Dubs89   Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3   Girly K   Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3   Girly K   Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3   AshJoe  
 Member  Message

 #1226505


Girly K
View Profile





 Baby horned lizard please help!!!

Ok so Iím totally new to all of this. My husband brought home a baby horned lizard that he caught at his job site. I have never had a reptile and need tons of info to learn how to take care of this. I read that they eat ants, and tried to bait some with sugar outside of my house but no luck. I have it in an empty aquarium with dirt, rocks, and a little water. It has lights on it but not sure what kind. HELP HELP HELP. My kids are already attatched and the last thing I want is for it to die!!!!



03/29/07  02:31pm

 #1226836


Dubs89
View Profile



  Message To: Girly K   In reference to Message Id: 1226505


 Baby horned lizard please help!!!

are you even allowed to trap them from wild there a endangerd species i think... but if you are i would suggest reading a caresheet on one http://www.centralpets.com/animals/reptiles/lizards/lzd4440.html

i hope this helps



03/29/07  07:10pm

 #1236970


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
View Profile



  Message To: Girly K   In reference to Message Id: 1226505


 Baby horned lizard please help!!!

If the last thing you want is for it to die THEN LET IT GO. You already have admitted that you know nothing about them and have never had a reptile before. Well the bad news is that this particular reptile is not the one for you to be learning on. Besides the fact that depending on the state you live it, it could be protected, this lizard also does terribly in captivity to inexperienced people. I can almost predict that you will kill it in less than 3 months.
You are so concerned that it might die, yet your whim to keep it ( becasue your kids need a toy ) overrides itís welfare? Youíre bound and determined to keep it, even if it kills the thing arenít you?
When people start talking about the "kids" and "being attached" when it comes to trying to keep a wild animal that they are not qualified to keep, I always wonder who the adult is in the house. Isnít this the kind of thing we should be teaching them?



04/07/07  02:48am

 #1241145


Girly K
View Profile



  Message To: Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3   In reference to Message Id: 1236970


 Baby horned lizard please help!!!

Well. I could get pissed at your attacks on me as a person and a parent, Your judging who I am despite knowing me. I posted, asking for help, not your psycological analysis on what type of person I am.
As for the lizard, I would have let it go had the spot my husband found it, had not been buldozed and a concrete slab layed down. So fyi, I have spent hours reading and studying this site as well as others, and found they are not so hard to take care of. We are building an outdoor home for it. For now I catch ants for it daily, have the correct lighting and environment. She is doing fine. So any more attacks on my character would be great if left untouched. Thanks.



04/10/07  07:43pm

 #1241556


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
View Profile



  Message To: Girly K   In reference to Message Id: 1241145


 Baby horned lizard please help!!!

Iím judging your decision based upon what you, yourself, have said. And based upon that context, and that of the welfare of this lizard, I really donít need much information to make that judgement. I donít have to read a bio on you to make that call. All I need to know is that you have NO reptile experience AND that I have experience with these lizards, and know that they do not do well with inexperienced people. Especially those with absolutely no experience.

You came here asking for help...but, you see, to me the most important one needing help here is not you, but the helpless captive that you have taken. I care more about the welfare of the lizard than your pea picking feelings on the matter. It seems you will do what you want though, and that tells me what I need to know about you as a person as well where it concerns this. You did not provide information about itís habitat, nor ask about possible relocation options, or if you should keep it, or any other such thing. So you were just intent on keeping it because you thought it was cute or something, so just be honest and admit it. You came here asking, but that doesnít make you ENTITLED to whichever kind of answer you wanted, to parrot your feeling on the matter and make you feel better about your decision.

You want to take in an animal that is threatened and protected in many states (for good reason ), and play catch up trying to learn on the animal before it dies. Well itís always a dumb thing to get an animal and THEN try to learn about it. And hereís the great thing about knowing right from wrong and having common sense in those kinds of matters....those principles transcend your individual experience and "who" you are. It doesnít matter who the heck you are.

Now you make it out to be a "personal attack" all you like and cry "victim". But this isnít about you dear. You learn from the internet if you like, and think they are not that hard to take care of. Personally, I donít know where you would have gotten that kind of information, when 20 years of herp experience and specifically 5 years with these kinds of lizards, I can tell you otherwise. If they were "not so hard", then given their obvious appeal, they would not be a species of concern, or threatened, or protected, and they CERTAINLY would be sold more in the pet trade if they were so easy. But, you see, Iím experienced in these things and you are not. So you donít know this. I can also tell you that there really arenít that many websites and information out there about the captive care of these lizards, so where are you reading this I donít know. You see anyone can put things out there and make it sound easy. Itís easy to say that when you live somewhere where you can gather them by the bucket loads too when you kill them.



04/11/07  01:39am

 #1243876


Girly K
View Profile



  Message To: Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3   In reference to Message Id: 1241556


 Baby horned lizard please help!!!

I apologize! I realize, you have expierence and I donít. I am not someone that gets offended easily. It seems that people here, are out to attack each other based on how "expierienced or inexpierienced" they are. I did honestly come here looking for help. I should have included more info on my first post. The place this lizard was found was demolished and built over. I talked to the local reptile store. They said it was important to return it to the exact spot it was found. That is what gave me the idea originally to keep it. I belive it was you that posted the care page on this site. I have studied it well. Now as you said it is not good to get a pet and then learn about it. I posted this after I had decided to keep it. Now if i release it, Can it be released just anywhere? I live in Mesa Arizona. She was found in Fountain Hills. If your not familiar with the area its about 15 miles away.
In the meantime, I was reading phrynosoma.org. I believe again this is a site you posted. I obtained a 20 gallon terrerium. I have uv lighting, playsand, rocks and a heat lamp. I feed her ants 2 x daily. And water 2x per week. I have 2 thermometers to moniter temp. She eats without problems, accepts water and defecates every other day. She is active in the mornings and burrows at night and mid afternoon. She is slightly bigger than a quarter. She is a p.solare. I learned from that web site.
Now honestly your input would be great. Even if you tell me to release her. Just let me know if I can release her anywhere. I am surrounded by desert.
Or is it possible to keep her? If we built her the proper outdoor enclosure? I know your probably laughing at me or disgusted either one. (due to my lack of expierience). But this is something I am really wanting to learn more about. If I dont keep this one, I will be getting something from the reptile store. Any way Your help is appreciated.
I was going to tell you something else, but I forgot.
Thanks
Kirstin
P.S. just to east your mind, no one handles her except me and that is only on a need to basis.
And they are not endangered here. You can own up to four.
Thanks again



04/12/07  07:04pm

 #1248499


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
View Profile



  Message To: Girly K   In reference to Message Id: 1243876


 Baby horned lizard please help!!!

Iím not "offended" either, so I donít require any apology. I just want people to be educated and do what is right. For the most part nobody here is out to "attack" anyone. I am not "out" to attack anyone. Iím far too busy and donít have time for BS like that.
What happens is that people who know very much about these lizards, and are in any way concerned about their conservation, tend to be a little protective of them. I tend to be more protective than most, but thatís because I have devoted a lot of time and effort into answering questions and communicating with people in this forum and a half a dozen others for years, and I see person after person in these forums, time and time again, who want answers from people with experience on how to take care of these lizards ( or other animals ) after they have caught one. Yet, when told if they have no experience or insufficient knowledge and they really shouldnít keep it, and instead should let it go, they suddenly become more versed in the animal and decide that they know enough about it to know they can keep it anyway.
Well, unfortunately I have very little time anymore to devote to this, and as most inexperienced people tend to kill them rather quickly after contacting a forum like this...there tends to be little time for me to impress upon these people the importance of letting the wildlife go before it dies. They will either care for itís life and listen to that, or they will not. There is not time to educate people sufficiently in the keeping of reptiles, and particularly these lizards, before they nose dive under the wrong care. There are many other reptiles that are less sensitive and more hardy in captivity...but this is not one of those reptiles. There are also many other reptiles for whom the loss of one here and there does not have the significant impact to wild populations, that the loss of a Horned Lizard does.
Besides keeping reptiles, Iíve taken in birds, and am now also rescueing and rehabbing baby squirrels, and I used to work with and train dogs. I have experience with a variety of animals, and lemmie tell you, MOST people are not even qualified to have the dogs they have. They usually know nothing of pack order, dominance displays, or proper socialization...nor do they even recognize easily identifiable and pretty dang obvious cues. Mammals are easy. They can show emotion, pain, etc. pretty easy. Reptiles are ambiguous and harder to read, even for the experienced, and most people without experience tend to impose mammalian or human standards and emotions to reptiles, causing the reptile to suffer and the reptile and/or the person be placed in jeopardy due to lack of education. I just had to tell a sick lady the other day, to go see the doctor because she probably contracted salmonellosis from a bite from her new Iguana. She went on feeling bad for a week before even asking about it. She probably got the bite from either playing kissy face with her new stressed out friend, or doing something else wrong with the handling. Then there are the people that want to know how many crickets they should feed their tortoise, or how deep to keep their water. Not even knowing that tortoises are herbivores, and neither can they swim. Just a few examples I see all the time of people not understanding the animal before they get it.

I am familiar with Mesa. I have three solare that came from just outside Apache Junction. I know they are not endangered or threatened yet in Az., but give it time. With more of this development further into the desert, they will be soon. They are regulated in Az though, and you need at least a hunting permit.

It is not necessary to return the lizard to the "exact" spot. That would be ideal, but, if there is suitable habitat that is not threatened within a few hundred yards of where it came from, that would be fine too. So long as it is close by, has suitable resources such as ant colonies and places to burrow and hide, and that any dominating land features such as mountains are visible with substantially the same orientation as would be seen from the original habitat location.

Most people look for help with keeping the animal, and they think that that is what I do when I post things. That is not what I do. I advocate for the animal, and if itís best interests are better served by being let go; I say so. Sometimes it sounds unduely harsh. But it only sounds that way if you are looking from your own human prespective. If you are looking from the animalís prespective and welfare, it is not harsh at all. I am curently caring for 4 baby HLís that were expressed mailed to me because someone could not pay for a reptile vet visit after they were caught from the wild and got sick. Thatís what most people are like. Have you checked into what that sort of thing costs, and are you prepared for it?

It is also a bad idea to let kids have anything to do with reptiles as pets in general until they are in their teens, and I cringe every time I hear something about the "kids being attached". I hear that several times a month, and it almost always ends bad for the animal be it a HL, frog, turtle, squirrel or whatever. They always want to interact and handle the animal, and play with it. Kids just donít have the maturity or knowledge to be messing with them and canít be expected to have that kind of responsibility. Thatís why they are kids, and adults have to take care of them and decide what is best...because they canít decide for themselves and canít take even care of themselves. They should not be expected to care for, or have responsibility over another life that is dependent. I hope you understand that dynamic whatever you decide to do, and that ultimately you are in charge and not your children based upon what they want.


If you do keep a HL though a 20 gallon isnít going to cut it, and neither is a fluorescent tube if thatís what you bought. It would really do the best outside which will require a purpose built enclosure, or if inside itís going to need mercury vapor UVB lighting. It lives on the desert and needs more UVB than what junk fluorescent tubes put out.

In almost any case I will offer what help I can, but Iím going to put out there the disclaimers and say what I think needs to be said in the animalís interest first. I appreciate that you are wanting to learn more. But let this baby go and learn more FIRST. Then if you must have one, go look for an adult. Baby HLís present a whole new set of challenges that you wonít be prepared or equipped for if problems develop. They are just too small and there is little that you would be able to do if something happened to a baby. It has much better chances of survival on itís own. I understand that if you donít keep this one, you "will be getting something from the reptile store". I donít know if that is supposed to be a form of coersion, but I would say that is the best thing. Let this little one go...study up on reptiles in general...decide which suitable beginner reptile you would like ( such as a nocturnal Gecko ( Leopard, etc. ) Green Anole, or corn snake )...study up on itís specific care...and then go to the store an select your animal. Any one of these reptiles are better for beginners for a variety of reasons. There are more people keeping them so there is a wider base of captive knowledge for a beginner, which means more websites and resources, the snake and Gecko have lower UVB needs and can usually be met without a UVB light, they are more forgiving and hardier in captivity in many respects, they are not almost singly dependent on any one food source as a solare is on harvester ants, many reptile vets are experienced with Geckos, snakes, etc. and have seen them before, whereas many vets wonít even see a Horned Lizard because they donít know enough about them. I could go on and on....please consider that before you decide to keep a HL in captivity before you are fully educated and equipped.



04/16/07  08:20am

 #2034603


AshJoe
View Profile



  Message To: Girly K   In reference to Message Id: 1226505


 Baby horned lizard please help!!!

To Both parties on this forum....the lizards you are quabling about are fascinating and easy to catch...sadly due to their best defense, standing still...I would just like you both to realize that we are all here to get education on one thing or another. So it’s bet not to judge!!!!
I have a horned lizard that has been mine and my fiances’ pet for almost four months....we thought she was always puffy and stressed out but this morning she gave birth to nine total but only seven survived....I would just like to know is it dire to separate the mother and her young....and how large of tank should I buy to accomodate this many lizards?!?



07/05/09  09:47pm


Back to Horned Lizards Forum   Forums   Home   Members Area