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 #2319330


C a s
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 More issues.. Help please, not drinking anymore

I thought she may be a bit dehydrated. When she poops the urate is very hard and orange with white.
Over the last few days I don’t know if she’s drinking. I have been putting the syringe to her mouth but she won’t open her mouth to drink it like she did before.
She won’t do it at all.
I have to open her mouth but all of the water just runs down the side and she doesn’t get any of it...
I don’t know what to do. How do I get her to drink?
She’s still eating, but not drinking. She used to, I don’t know why she’s doing this now. Is she so dehydrated that she will no longer drink at all? I don’t understand why she’s doing this and I’m very distressed.



08/22/16  11:39am

 #2319331


Saphiras mom
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  Message To: C a s   In reference to Message Id: 2319330


 More issues.. Help please, not drinking anymore

they dont always drink water, especially as they get older.



08/22/16  12:01pm

 #2319336


DJFrillies
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  Message To: Saphiras mom   In reference to Message Id: 2319331


 More issues.. Help please, not drinking anymore

Saphiras mom is right that you will see them drinking less water as they get larger and older. I have one larger male that I have never observed drinking. He does not drink water dropped on his nose, or when being misted or bathed.

Babies and juveniles will drink directly from many sources, but as adults much of their liquids come from the larger bugs/creatures/vegetation they eat and they also have a secondary method of water intake. While resting in shallow water, an adult can and does absorb water thru its vent. So long as you are offering clean lukewarm water daily, and misting, you should be fine. If you are real worried, you can get some generic pedialyte, and pour a thin layer in a small container and let the lizards vent rest in it. It should absorb whatever it needs if it actually needs anything.



08/23/16  09:21am

 #2319343


C a s
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  Message To: DJFrillies   In reference to Message Id: 2319336


 More issues.. Help please, not drinking anymore

Does it really absorb through the vent? I have done googling to see if it does or doesn’t. I have a lot of conflicting information, so I’m a bit confused.
I got her hornworms and dubia and she ate one hornworm but still is eating a few of the dubia.
The problem is she won’t go down to the bottom of the cage to eat anymore so I have to bring it to her. She dislikes walking it seems but the vet did xrays and saw no abnormalities.
Her urates are still hard...
And almost a few days ago she was drinking via the dropper, now she refuses.



08/25/16  09:32am

 #2319344


Saphiras mom
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  Message To: C a s   In reference to Message Id: 2319343


 More issues.. Help please, not drinking anymore

Urates can be more solid without it being a problem, but the fact she doesn’t want to move worries me. Did the vet do blood work? Gout is not always noticeable on X-rays. It is due to high uric acid levels in the blood and the uric acid crystallizes out in the joints which is very painful. You can usually see some swelling of joints. I had a beardie with it due to kidney failure. Apparently it can also be due to an unrecognized infection.



08/25/16  12:28pm

 #2319345


C a s
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  Message To: Saphiras mom   In reference to Message Id: 2319344


 More issues.. Help please, not drinking anymore

He didn’t do bloodwork but said he saw no other signs of it. She has a couple of weird looking toes but they’re not really changing and she doesn’t exactly have swelling in her limbs other than that.
I asked him about it like two times and he said ’I don’t think she has gout’
He did do an xray and told me there didn’t really seem to be any abnormalities in her bones such as MBD and all that.



08/25/16  03:04pm

 #2319347


DJFrillies
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  Message To: C a s   In reference to Message Id: 2319345


 More issues.. Help please, not drinking anymore

Lizards in general seem to be sensitive to kidney issues.

Water can be absorbed via vent, simple osmosis shows this to be true.

It could be that she is just aging, and like most mature creatures, learning to conserve more energy on a day to day basis.

You can also see some behavior changes right before a shed, less willingness to interact, not as hungry as normal, not as thirsty. A nice lukewarm (85F-95F) bath for 10-15min in moving water can help a shed get started and help with any hydration concerns.



08/25/16  04:44pm

 #2319348


C a s
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  Message To: DJFrillies   In reference to Message Id: 2319347


 More issues.. Help please, not drinking anymore

How do I get the water moving?
and also here’s a photo of her
She seems to have a lot of good weight on her and is kind of heavy, and when I feel her belly I don’t feel any impactions or anything...



08/25/16  05:13pm

 #2319350


C a s
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  Message To: C a s   In reference to Message Id: 2319348


 More issues.. Help please, not drinking anymore

I’d also like to note for some reason about once a day I find her laying very flat on the ground usually in the same place. I do not know why or how she gets there but I often find her there and put her back on her branch because she looks really pathetic on the ground.



08/26/16  11:40am

 #2319352


DJFrillies
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  Message To: C a s   In reference to Message Id: 2319350


 More issues.. Help please, not drinking anymore

You can see from the picture that she was just placed on the branch, she is not grasping it at all. This is all classic sulking, which frilled dragons are known for. Read the section on "mental health" again from this old website. Link

Laying on the ground is another sign of sulking behavior, although for females it can also mean they have eggs and are looking for a place to lay them. Fertile females need to have some soil that is deep enough to dig in for egg laying. A cat litter tray can work.

To get bath water moving you use a simple submersible pump, not too strong. Something you can lay on its side for both water intake and output to be able to circulate shallow water. Decent one link Link



08/26/16  03:54pm

 #2319353


C a s
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  Message To: DJFrillies   In reference to Message Id: 2319352


 More issues.. Help please, not drinking anymore

She’s been known to sulk randomly before, but not like this and not for this long so I’m unsure. She keeps going off and on from this.
It still worries me because when I take her out of the cage to bathe her and put her on a towel 9 out of 10 times she will do what she does in the cage when I find her on the ground, sprawled out, completely flat/pancaked, head on the ground, looking half dead and in the same position I put her in.
When I pick her up from the towel sometimes she’ll try to jump away from me.
When I put her in the bath she gets irritated because she doesn’t like baths really and she will jump and run around a bit before giving up
The only way I would describe it is kind of like this beardie, although not exactly.


I have no pictures of her doing it because it scares the crap out of me. I am scared she will get too cold down there. The bottom of the cage is cooler than the top half, something I’m trying to remedy, but it’s not an intense drop. It may be in the mid 80s at the bottom.
I’m going to get a heatgun soon I hope, so this will tell me exactly what it is...
I don’t know, I’ve taken her to the vet like three times now and he’s given her antibiotics and, I will be honest, I do not know how to use the mite spray so I haven’t used it yet. But I keep a good eye on her, I still don’t see any mites. It just really scares me because it’s Ivermectin. I cannot get a clear yes/no on if it’s deadly or not. I am supposed to dilute it, but I’m scared of not dliuting it enough...
I do have springtails in the cage, and I don’t think those are particularly hurting her. Since the external parasites were in her stool I wonder if somehow she ate a springtail? He had never actually heard of springtails.
Antibiotics almost seem to work briefly, but maybe it’s sort of a placebo affect (for me, not her).
I am very unsure on what to do with her. I never know if she’s going to die or if she’ll be okay.
She perks up sometimes, hisses at me like she used to, still eats but is really not taking the hornworms I bought for her for some reason, just dubias, which I have now started feeding mostly cucumber and dubia chow to make sure she’s getting more water. But she doesn’t want to go down there for them, or rather it doesn’t seem like it so I just give them straight to her holding a small deli cup to her and she will take them.
I mean, does she look near death? The vet said last time he weighed her, she had gained weight, which he said was good for frilleds.
I check her belly often for any signs of impaction/eggs/etc. The only real hardness I feel is her hip bones. Her stomach is kind of..firm. Like, not impacted firm, there’s just a lot of it, and she’s heavy and kind of fat.
This message turned a lot longer than I wanted it to...



08/26/16  04:25pm

 #2319356


C a s
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  Message To: C a s   In reference to Message Id: 2319353


 More issues.. Help please, not drinking anymore

I hate to add to my posts again. Today she was acting a bit worse but I’m not sure how worse.
Yesterday I fed her dubias and a large horn worm and the day before I did the same, and the day before that. So she’s been fed three days in a row and I usually don’t feed her that much that often.
But I put her in the bath today because she poops in the bath but today she did not poop.
I kept finding her on the ground and I tried to feed her and she refused. Then I put her in the bath and while I was running it I put her on the rug. She was kind of alert. She was looking at me and watching me and had the beginnings of a frill when I’d walk past her a lot.
It started off like this


I put her in the bath and she was kind of acting a little weird. Almost kind of stiff.

here’s a pic.
She was a bit low in the bath, and she drank a little bit but she drank a small eyelash sized hair and seemed to get annoyed and stopped. I was confused because at one point she put her face really far down and sometimes she does that when she poops but she didn’t poop.
I took her out and she was like this:


I put her back in the cage and she did move slightly to another part of the cage...
I’m still worried. I am taking her to the vet Tuesday or am going to try to to get her blood work done or something because idk what else to do.
Could her kidneys have completely failed? Will she even last until Tuesday? Will she last past Tuesday?



08/27/16  10:01pm

 #2319357


Saphiras mom
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  Message To: C a s   In reference to Message Id: 2319356


 More issues.. Help please, not drinking anymore

I think you should go to a vet if you feel there is a problem. You keep posting she is doing worse, but no one really has any answers for you and your delay in going to a vet is very irresponsible. I am personally not responding to this any more. If you want attention, find a different group and if you want to help your animal be responsible and take it to a vet.



08/28/16  06:35am

 #2319359


C a s
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  Message To: Saphiras mom   In reference to Message Id: 2319357


 More issues.. Help please, not drinking anymore

I am taking her to the vet Tuesday. I don’t know if you realize that today is Sunday but I cannot call in until Monday and so the earliest I’d be able to get in would be Tuesday.
I’ve taken her to the vet twice now.
I’m trying to find help on what to do until Tuesday.



08/28/16  08:48am

 #2319363


DJFrillies
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  Message To: C a s   In reference to Message Id: 2319359


 More issues.. Help please, not drinking anymore

With all due respect, I think maybe you need to see a doctor for some Xanax or Valiums for yourself. You are stressing over the behavior of another creature, which you cannot control. The Vet doesn’t have a magic wand, medicine is not magical at all - it is mainly the best guess based on a knowledge collection. With that said, diagnostic tests can give quantifiable results. If blood tests have never been done, a baseline is a nice to have.

Taking her to the vet because she is sulking or preshed (behavioral issues) and you just waste your time and money. These are not "correctable" issues.



08/29/16  09:34am

 #2319367


C a s
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  Message To: DJFrillies   In reference to Message Id: 2319363


 More issues.. Help please, not drinking anymore

I have serious anxiety issues admittedly. Today when I went to the vet they discovered a new issue. When they went to take blood they also did an abdominal ultrasound and found some fluids in her abdomen but he didn’t see anything organ wise that was abnormal. He took blood and he drained some of the fluid
He also gave her 8ml of fluid. He said that the fluid was clearish yellow not thick not cloudy and full of protein. He thinks infection or gout now. He has sent me home with antibiotics, critical care food, and pain meds. He said if I wanted to I could wait until they got the diagnosis to start antibiotics.
He told me if I had to to alternate between pedialite/water syringes and then critical care food the next day.
So I am not sure what this means. Also they said she’s lost weight. They said not a whole lot but it is abnormal



08/30/16  04:51pm

 #2319447


DJFrillies
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  Message To: C a s   In reference to Message Id: 2319367


 More issues.. Help please, not drinking anymore

Recognizing a problem is the first step to a solution. Sorry to hear about the situation, but glad that if there is an issue, diagnostics are at least begun.

Unfortunately our pets are subject to many of the same issues as all other animals; growths, lesions, cancers, aging, etc. and medical care is not cheap.

Please keep us up to date on what is happening. The more you know kinda thing?

I have a male that I rescued from a pet center after he was abandoned there 4 months ago. Super skinny, just now starting to eat on his own after 3 months. Clear signs of beginnings of CANV inside his frill, you can see the gold color in the dead scales. Topical treatment tried but insufficient. He should already be dead by some measures, but he seems like hes slowly getting better. If I get him to fatten up some, I can try a treatment course for CANV (30 days oral fluid mix), but its hard on them, the medicine causes nausea, you can see it, and they lose their appetite while on the medicine.



09/07/16  05:34pm

 #2319486


C a s
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  Message To: DJFrillies   In reference to Message Id: 2319447


 More issues.. Help please, not drinking anymore

She was officially diagnosed with gout a while back and I was giving her medicine for it, and she was doing better. Her urates were more normal and everything but then it got kind of cold for a few days because I lost my heat lamps and she just hasn’t recovered, and I feel like now she’s just on borrowed time and I feel like she’s going to die any day now. For some reason her eyes have become swollen and don’t look right, and she won’t hold her head up anymore but I put her in the bath and she drank some of the water.
Either way I’m feeling very hopeless about the whole situation.



09/16/16  11:23am


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