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 #2160124


FutureVet123
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 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

Ok, so I feel very stupid asking this question, but lately I have been doing some thinking and as it turns out I really don’t know what breed constitutes a "Pit Bull." This isn’t actually a breed, is it? I’ve heard that it’s a general term used for APBTs, etc. but I’m not sure. There are so many bully breeds- APBTs, ASTs, etc. and I’m just completely confused.
Any help would be appreciated (and God bless you in advance for trying...I am a blonde after all)
Thanks,
-Peaches and Jeni



07/03/10  09:28am

 #2160192


Repfanaticlady29
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  Message To: FutureVet123   In reference to Message Id: 2160124


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

No, Pit bull is not a breed. The 3 main breeds categorized as pit bulls are the American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, and Staffordshire Bull Terrier. When it comes to Breed Specific Legislation some places even include American Bulldogs and Boxers into the pit bull category. Hope that helped a bit.



07/03/10  04:57pm

 #2160205


FutureVet123
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  Message To: Repfanaticlady29   In reference to Message Id: 2160192


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

Yes, that definitely cleared things up. So is the Staffordshire Bull Terrier a mix between the American Pit Bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier or is the name just a coincidence?
-Peaches and Jeni



07/03/10  06:18pm

 #2160340


Repfanaticlady29
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  Message To: FutureVet123   In reference to Message Id: 2160205


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

From what I gather they are their own breed. They are related to the English Bull Terrier though. Happy 4th of July!



07/04/10  12:27pm

 #2160505


Ghastly
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  Message To: FutureVet123   In reference to Message Id: 2160205


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

"Pit Bull" is just a category of various dog breeds, lowlifes who like to make them dog seem like something its not or just plain lazy to say its correct name.
Over here in our BSL these dogs fall into the "Pit Bull" category (be prepared):-

American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, English Bull Terrier, American Bulldog, British Bulldog, French Bulldog, Old English Bulldog, Old Tyme Bulldog, Cane Corso Mastiff, Neapolitan Mastiff, Dogue de Bourdeaux, English Mastiff, Bull Mastiff, Perro de Presa Canario, Dobermann Pinscher, Boxer, Rottweiler, Labrador Retriever, Bloodhound, German Shepherd Dog/Alsatian, Dalmatian, Bandog/Bandogge, Dogo Argentino, Fila Brazeilero, Japanese Tosa, Japanese Akita, Chow Chow, Basenji, Boston Terrier, Bracco Italiano, Clumberland Spaniel, Great Dane, Grand Bleu de Gascogne, Rhodesian Ridgeback, Thai Ridgeback, Hungarian Vizla, Pug, Shar Pei.

Just to name a couple!!

Anything that has a large muscular frame and a large/semi large "block" head can be categorized as a "Pit Bull" type dog.



07/05/10  10:55am

 #2160608


Amyers
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  Message To: Ghastly   In reference to Message Id: 2160505


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

Quote:

Labrador Retriever

Quote:

Clumber spaniel

wow that just makes me laugh. i cant believe they would be put in that catagory. it beats me.



07/05/10  07:27pm

 #2160642


Repfanaticlady29
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  Message To: Ghastly   In reference to Message Id: 2160505


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

Are you sure that’s not just the list of dog breeds considered "dangerous" where you are? I can’t see them listing most of those breeds in the pit bull category unless they are just using the term incorrectly. Labs, spitz, chows, basenjis, and many others do not fit the description.



07/05/10  10:59pm

 #2160742


FutureVet123
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  Message To: Repfanaticlady29   In reference to Message Id: 2160642


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

Same here. Also, Boston Terriers and French bulldogs. I have friends who own both and although they are stubborn, they are sweetie pies.
-Peaches and Jeni



07/06/10  12:08pm

 #2160780


Ghastly
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  Message To: Repfanaticlady29   In reference to Message Id: 2160642


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

Quote:

Quote:

Labrador Retriever
Quote:

Clumber spaniel
wow that just makes me laugh. i cant believe they would be put in that catagory. it beats me.



I think due tot he fact that Labradors and Clumberland Spaniels in Europe are bred to be short, stocky with a short muzzle and broad head do give them a sort of Bull breed appearance.


Quote:

Are you sure that’s not just the list of dog breeds considered "dangerous" where you are?



No, the only dogs that are considered dangerous here are Bull breeds - APBT, Am. Staff, Staffordshire, English Bull, Dobermann, Rottweiler, Dogo Argentino, Tosa, Fila Brazilerio and occasionally a GSD. The term "Pit Bull" is over rated and used incorrectly i agree Europe government use’s it incorrectly no doubt anything that has or a breed that can have a broad head and stocky they like to throw into the "Pit Bull" category.
Confusing yet highly stupid on the Norway BSL the "Pit Bull" is a banned breed?!?! Which i think they mean the American Pit Bull as they allow the Staffordshire Bull Terrier reside here along with the English Bull Terrier they don’t allow the American Staffordshire Bull Terrier in the country anymore (apart from one’s already residing but they can’t be bred from) as of late 2004 early 2005 incase it is mistaken for a American Pit Bull Terrier but yet they don’t have anything on saying the APBT can’t come in? They just refuse or sometimes make a exception for dogs of these "appearance".

All in all i think country bans and breed terms are just . . . i cant evan type it lol ^^



07/06/10  02:21pm

 #2161079


Senshokukiba
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  Message To: Ghastly   In reference to Message Id: 2160780


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

Generally, in the United States, pit bulls include:
(a) a pit bull terrier
(b) a Staffordshire Bull Terrier
(c) an American Staffordshire Terrier
(d) an American Pit Bull Terrier
(e) Rottweilers
(f) Presa Canarios and their mixes
(g) a dog that has an appearance and physical characteristics that are substantially similar
to those of dogs referred to in any of clauses (a) to (f); ("pit-bull")




07/08/10  01:49am

 #2161081


Senshokukiba
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  Message To: Senshokukiba   In reference to Message Id: 2161079


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

OMG! Since Ghastly brought up breed bans, I thought I would do some research on BSL in Missouri (where I live). Apparently, roughly 50 cities in Missouri have either banned, or restricted pit bull ownership. Some cities have even banned German Shepherds, Boxers, and Doberman Pinschers. Holy fish paste!

Missouri is a lot different than Idaho; there were few, if any, bans there.



07/08/10  02:17am

 #2161091


Repfanaticlady29
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  Message To: Senshokukiba   In reference to Message Id: 2161081


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

Your (a) is the same breed as your (d).

I’m from Missouri. Not only do they have crappy laws and breed restrictions/bans, but the shelters suck too. I love southern MO, but the fact that the whole state seems to not care about its animals makes me never want to live there again. Yesterday a guy got busted with tons of pit bulls all in poor condition. Those poor dogs had to go all the way to St. Louis (3 hours away) because there’s no good shelters out here. Both shelters nearby are high kill and one doesn’t even adopt out to the public. Ridiculous!



07/08/10  09:07am

 #2161129


LizaB2008
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  Message To: Repfanaticlady29   In reference to Message Id: 2161091


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

No offense but how in the hell is a Rottweiler considered a "Pit Bull"?? That confuses the hell out of me! Rottweilers and Presa Canarios belong to a completely different breed group then those that were bred to fight in a pit and bull bait?? I think people need to do a little more research. Rottweilers and Presa Canary dogs are however on the dangerous dog lists. I think you have "Pit Bulls" and "Dangerous dog breeds" confused. I have a friend that is the officer for our Humane Society, the only dogs they consider to be a " Pit Bull" is the American PIT BULL terrier. I mean really, Pit Bull is short for American Pit Bull Terrier. American Bulldogs are often confused with the American Pit Bull Terrier.

Excuse me for getting a little iffy about people calling the Rottweiler a "Pit Bull", but they are 2 different breeds, not even close in a apperance or behavior. Rottweilers were bred to cattle drove and eventually gaurd, not to bull bait or fight, there for they do not fit the "Pit Bull" discription.

Maybe Allen County Humane Society’s discrition is different then where ever you people live, but we also have laws that say that "Pit Bull" owners must carry 100,000 dollar insurance on them, American Pit Bull Terriers are the only breed that goes for. It is suggested that anyone who owns any other dangerous dog breed should carry the insurance, but it is not a law like it is for the "Pit Bull".



07/08/10  12:14pm

 #2161269


Repfanaticlady29
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  Message To: LizaB2008   In reference to Message Id: 2161129


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

Again, pit bull IS NOT a breed. There are 3 breeds that are mainly placed in the category. When BSL (lawmakers) is involved there are many other breeds put into the category, including Rottweilers. Pit bull describes physical characteristics; not origin, history, use of the breed, etc. Just physical characteristics. Pit bull is widely used when talking about BSL and was probably even invented by lawmakers. There’s no better way to describe it than this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull.



07/09/10  01:26am

 #2161273


Senshokukiba
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  Message To: Repfanaticlady29   In reference to Message Id: 2161091


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

The list I posted was copied directly from a breed ban clause; I did not type it.

I have lived in Missouri for nearly a year now; I hate this state. There is not enough being done to combat the feral/stray cat population, or the overwhelming amount of puppy mills. I have also seen a tremendous amount of animal abuse since I have been in Missouri (people kicking their dogs, people smacking stray cats with brooms). It is disgusting.

I was planning to move to Columbia, MO, but the rental properties I was interested in, only allowed Golden Retrievers and Labrador Retrievers. I am planning to purchase a dog (most likely a mastiff of some sort) in the near future. So, the rentals would not have worked out.

And yes, the shelters here are crap. My aunt had a group of feral kittens that she was planning to surrender to the Central Missouri Humane Society. When she went to give them up, CMHS told her that they would be humanely euthanized due to lack of resources. My mom and I ended up taking all seven of the kittens. We successfully found homes for two, and ended up keeping the other five. We now have a total of nine cats.

Additionally, there is an elderly stray cat in my neighborhood, and none of the no-kill shelters will take him in. I have contacted eight no-kill shelters, and they either have no space, or do not accept sickly cats. This cat is most likely going to die on my porch.

Any way... sorry for getting off topic.







07/09/10  02:00am

 #2161315


LizaB2008
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  Message To: Senshokukiba   In reference to Message Id: 2161273


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

Rottweilers and Canary Dogs don’t even fit the same pysical characteristics as the American Pit Bull Terrier, Stafford Shire, or American Stafford Shire Bull Terrier. Maybe in your states those breeds are considered to be "Pit Bulls" but here in Ohio, it’s only the American Pit Bull Terrier. Those breeds are all on the Dangerous dog list of course, but none of them are identified as a "Pit Bull" but the one that has the word "Pit Bull" in it’s name. I have had people try to claim that American Bulldogs were "Pit Bulls", although the American Bulldog is much larger and has a different body structure. I’m not saying these thing to pick an arguement, I’m simply stating the truth. Rottweilers and Canary Dogs are not in anyway, shape, or form made physically like bully breeds, nor do they share the same behavioral patterns.

And seriously, your pulling information off of wikipedia? That information wasn’t put there by a proffesional, or someone who is educated on the dog laws. But just your average joe that doesn’t know a single thing about what they are talking about. I have an article on wikipedia from my highschool days, that should tell you how reliable that site is. I was 16!



07/09/10  10:38am

 #2161318


Repfanaticlady29
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  Message To: LizaB2008   In reference to Message Id: 2161315


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

The information I posted from Wikipedia is the SAME information you will find anywhere else when you look up the definition of pit bull. Stop getting angry with us because some states/counties consider Rottweilers to be in the pit bull category. We’re not the ones writing the laws and we’re not the ones saying they should be categorized as pit bulls. It’s not like it matters to you. As you’ve said, it’s only APBTs that they call pit bulls there; and you obviously don’t like them, so it doesn’t matter. If you want to be angry and throw a pointless fit about it you can write the governor of every state where they call Rotts pit bulls.

Link There’s a little article on the legal definition. You can see where it gets broader and broader as more lawmakers get involved. They’ll ban anything that looks tough. Pathetic.



07/09/10  10:53am

 #2161384


LizaB2008
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  Message To: Repfanaticlady29   In reference to Message Id: 2161318


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

Wow. I love Bully breeds, they are one of my favorites. I just don’t see where they are getting that Rottweilers are anywhere close to the same in anyway shape or form?



07/09/10  02:28pm

 #2161422


Keirax
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  Message To: LizaB2008   In reference to Message Id: 2161384


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

well i was going to post but everyone seems to have cleared things up. No "pit bulls" is not a breed its a name that we humans gave to the breed. One myth of how they got this name is the dog would be thrown into a PIT with a BULL and forced to fight to the death as a means of entertainment to us. Rottweilers fall in this category as well as others listed just for their abilities to fight and the human way of giving them a title. Yes people are misunderstanding of many breeds but just because someone owns a breed they do not fully know the entire history to does NOT make them dumb owners, my best friends knew nothing of the Staffordshire bull terrier breed but she adopted a dog that was in desperate need of a loving home. She does indeed call him a "pitbull" but this does not make her a dumb owner, the ones who feed the fear of these breeds are what you would call "dumb" pet owners. The ones who beat their dogs to make them mean to have a "guard dog" feed the fires that are slowly consuming these breeds. In many areas because of the owners breeds can not be in areas. Most citys even require your bully breeds to be in muzzles even if your dog is sweet and caring just for the fact they r a bully breed. Humans fear what they do not understand or what they cannot control. We created these "mean dogs". Yes it is very very important to research any animal b4 you buy it but i believe it is unfair to state owners who do not know the history of their dog to be labeled because so for many many people save these bully breeds to give a poor misunderstood animal a home.



07/09/10  04:42pm

 #2161425


Keirax
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  Message To: Keirax   In reference to Message Id: 2161422


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

just to back up what i said about the name being made from pitting dogs against bulls i went to a website and got this hope it clears things up a bit :D


History

Before the nineteenth century, bloodsports such as bull baiting, bear baiting and fighting were common. Bulls brought to market were set upon by dogs as a way of tenderizing the meat and providing entertainment for the spectators; and dog fights with bears, bulls and other animals were often organized as entertainment for both royalty and commoners. Early Bull and Terriers were not bred for the handsome visual specimen of today, rather they were bred for the characteristic known as gameness. The pitting of dogs against bear or bull tested the gameness, strength and skill of the dog. These early "proto-staffords" provided the ancestral foundation stock for the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, the Bull Terrier, the American Pit Bull Terrier and American Staffordshire Terrier. This common ancestor was known as the "Bull and Terrier".
These bloodsports were officially eliminated in 1835 as Britain began to introduce animal welfare laws. Since dogfights were cheaper to organize and far easier to conceal from the law than bull or bear baits, bloodsport proponents turned to pitting their dogs against each other instead. Dog fighting was used as both a bloodsport (often involving gambling) and a way to continue to test the quality of their stock. For decades afterward, dog fighting clandestinely took place in pockets of working-class Britain and America. Dogs were released into a pit, and the last dog still fighting (or occasionally, the last dog surviving) was recognized as the winner. The quality of pluckiness or "gameness" was still highly prized, and dogs that gave up during a fight were reviled as "curs".



07/09/10  04:50pm

 #2161458


LizaB2008
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  Message To: Keirax   In reference to Message Id: 2161425


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

Rottweilers fall into the discription because of their ability to fight? Really? lol. That is hilarious. Rottweilers were bred to cattle drove and gaurd, not to fight. Never have I even seen them used to fight. I have seen Bull Mastiffs, Cane Corso, American Bulldogs, English Bulldogs, American Pit Bull Terriers, Staffys, and Canary dogs used to fight. But never a Rottweiler. My Rott is weiry of strange people, but will run up to any dog wagging her little nub. Same pretty much goes for any other Rott I have ever come across.



07/09/10  08:06pm

 #2161481


FutureVet123
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  Message To: LizaB2008   In reference to Message Id: 2161458


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

Firstly, I appreciate all everyone has done to clear this up for me. Secondly, I have to 100% agree with Liza on the Rottweiler debate. I don’t know what it is, but you can not honestly look at a Rottweiler and say it is a Pit Bull. In that case, we might as well label ALL quote-unquote "dangerous dogs" as "pit bulls" - Shepherds, Boxers, Dobermans, the like. Their body structure is MUCH different than that of the APBT, AST, a Corso, etc. like Liza stated above. I think the issue we have is that a city administrator could look at a Rottweiler’s physique and liken it to a pit. In no way do they share a resemblance in head type, body structure, muscle mass, coat type, etc. I think it would be reasonable to settle on "dangerous" (this does not mean I agree that they are dangerous. No dog is naturally dangerous. However, they are bred to be strong headed and independent and an unknowledgeable and unprepared owner can spell disaster if they can not properly restrain or train a large, muscular dog with a reasonable amount of prey drive. Correct me here please if I am wrong), but not a "pit bull". Lawmakers need to open their eyes (literally).
-Peaches and Jeni



07/09/10  09:13pm

 #2161502


LizaB2008
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  Message To: FutureVet123   In reference to Message Id: 2161481


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

Exactly my point, thank you!



07/09/10  10:04pm

 #2161505


Keirax
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  Message To: LizaB2008   In reference to Message Id: 2161502


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

i agree with you both, but unfortunately most "dangerous" dogs are labeled as "pitbulls" or "bad breeds" nothing we can do in that sense but try and educate those who are ill-informed. Again humans fear what they do not understand and label what they cannot control as "vicious". There are no bad dogs only bad owners, im still trying to explain to my grandpa that their "mean streak" is not in their blood that it is forced into the dog by their owners for one reason or another. All dogs are born with a good heart only when they are beaten or abused does it change for the worst and even then the dogs mostly attack others never their owners they are loyal to the end.



07/09/10  10:17pm

 #2161506


Repfanaticlady29
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  Message To: FutureVet123   In reference to Message Id: 2161481


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

There is no debate. Nobody said they agree a Rott should be labeled as a pit bull. The lawmakers are the only ones that say that. We all already know they’re idiots. The only problem here is Liza coming on here getting mad at us because we are stating what our laws say like it’s our fault or something. Everything was perfectly fine until she started posting.



07/09/10  10:21pm

 #2161514


Keirax
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  Message To: Repfanaticlady29   In reference to Message Id: 2161506


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

i dont understand why theres always a fight on these things. People state what they believe and should not be casted out or singled out because of this. Maybe she misunderstood or maybe shes stating her opinion on that subject. Personally i c nothing wrong with anything that was said for everyone has the right to hold their own opinions. :D everyone have a great night looking forward to reading tomorrows posts



07/09/10  10:41pm

 #2161535


Senshokukiba
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  Message To: Keirax   In reference to Message Id: 2161505


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

The majority of dogs that attack are not abused, or neglected; they are, in fact, beloved family members.

A large fraction of dog attacks involve children. Why? Because owners trust their dogs so much, that they believe leaving them alone with their children is acceptable. My dad left my brother, alone, when he was six, with his Chesapeake Bay Retriever; my brother ended up with his lip torn open.

When my half-brother was seven years old, his friend’s American Pit Bull Terrier x Boxer tackled him, and tore open his shoulder. His friend’s parents has stated that they would be watching him. They failed to do this. If I had not walked outside, to check on my brother, it could have been worse.

Any way... you get the picture (or at least I hope you do).









07/10/10  12:22am

 #2161541


Keirax
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  Message To: Senshokukiba   In reference to Message Id: 2161535


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

....again dogs do not i repeat DO NOT attack for no reason, it is in fact the owners fault for leaving the dog with children unattended. Dogs can not help the fact that they are wild and we can never ever fully domesticate them. Every breed tells you to watch children around dogs they tend to push and pull and mess with the dog causing an "attack" just because a dog attacks someone does not make that dog or dogs mean everyone has the moments where they just want to left alone and they can say so the reason why these"attacks" happen to children is because children tend to be the ones pulling on the dogs ears and such. Dogs can not say hey can you leave me alone so they "attack" these attacks are a dogs way of saying back off. In a wolf pack if the puppies are getting out of hand the alpha female or the wolf watching the pups will attack or bite the pups to tell the puppies to stop what ever they are doing. Dogs descend from wolves, they have wild in them no matter how "tame" we think we have them. Its our responsibility to respect this fact and not abuse these animals, this includes watching small children when they are around dogs of all sizes. Anyways got to go take my little pup outside b4 bed. hope you all have a great night :D



07/10/10  01:13am

 #2161602


Senshokukiba
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  Message To: Keirax   In reference to Message Id: 2161541


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

Dogs are not wild, though. They are domesticated, just like cattle, horses, chickens, etc. They have been bred specifically to be compatible with humans. Dogs may be similar to wolves, but they are definitely not in the same boat.

I was raised with dogs my entire life. When they wanted me to leave them alone, they would bare their fangs, or simply growl. At no point, did a dog attack me, because I would not leave it alone. Most dogs only attack as a last resort. Unfortunately, I do not find that this is true for many pit bulls.

I love pit bulls, but I do not feel that they are the same as a Labrador Retriever or a Standard Poodle. All dogs can attack, but some are more likely to, and some do it with more enthusiasm.

When people say, "Any dog can attack", or "Any dog can become aggressive", they are missing the point. It is not about whether any dog can act aggressively, or attack. It is about which dogs are more likely to do so.

Pit bulls are loving, affectionate, loyal, intelligent, playful, sweet, etc. But, they are also stubborn, powerful, sensitive, highly prey driven, and prone to high-aggression triggering (more so in dogs that have not been selectively bred). Dogs that possess these traits (or similar ones) have a greater potential to cause hurt, or harm.

Also, I do believe that pit bulls have a diminished tendency to warn people, before attacking. Pit bulls were bred to fight. When they entered a ring, they could bark, growl, and posture as much as they wanted to. This behavior was unnecessary, though. As I stated, fighting is a dog’s last resort. Dogs warn others by growling and posturing. There was no need for this "system" in pit bulls.
Not to mention, if a pit bull entered a ring and spent all of its time growling and posturing, it would be dead. There was no time to stand around, and give off warnings signs (alert ears, etc.).

"You can have all the dog experience in the world, but if you really don’t understand the fighting background of these dogs, and recognize it as something real, you are likely to risk accidents."
- PBRC

I am too lazy to continue posting, so I will stop here. This will probably be my final post here. RZ is not the place it used to be. Everyone seems to have left. Not to mention, the threads have become kind of trashy.



07/10/10  12:29pm

 #2161611


Repfanaticlady29
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  Message To: Senshokukiba   In reference to Message Id: 2161602


 What Exactly Constitutes a "Pit Bull"?

Well, if you’re going to post negative crap like that then good riddance. Pit bulls were bred to be DOG AGGRESSIVE. If at any point they show aggression towards humans they should be put down. Many people including yourself do not understand that there is a huge difference between dog and human aggression. Funny that you compare pit bulls to Labs since there are more bite reports (towards humans) involving Labs. And yes, I said you don’t understand.....because you don’t. I am also done posting on this thread because it’s pointless. This was not the subject in the beginning and I’ve already tried to point people like yourself in the right direction, but since you’re quoting PBRC I can tell you’ll just misconstrue all the information you read. Their background in fighting is with other dogs. They were bred for it. Never have they been bred to be aggressive towards humans.



07/10/10  12:48pm
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