Your Reptile and Amphibian Resource and Information Site

Back to Collard Lizards Forum   Forums   Home   Members Area  

Collard Lizards Forum

Winterborn   JackAsp   Winterborn   JackAsp   Winterborn   Chippychop   JackAsp   Winterborn   JackAsp   Winterborn   JackAsp   Winterborn   JackAsp   JackAsp  
 Member  Message

 #2091492


Winterborn
View Profile





 Interested in getting a collard

maybe! I’m looking for a new lizard to get in the new year and think these guys look really interesting. I have other options, that why I said maybe.

I have available a wooden viv 36 inches long, 18 inches wide and 18 inches long. Is this big enough for an adult, maybe two? Are two females ok kept together?



11/03/09  01:29pm

 #2091526


JackAsp
View Profile



  Message To: Winterborn   In reference to Message Id: 2091492


 Interested in getting a collard

1. It’s probably big enough. Most of them do well in tanks that size. Many people even do well with a trio in there, but at that point it starts getting iffy.
2. Females do great together. If one is too dominant (whenver one of mine’s growth has gotten ahead of the other, there’s been a shift in the balance of power) you have to take a little bit of extra care to make sure they both get enough food, but they’re fine about things like sharing basking spots. Mine even shared the same nesting spot last year, since Chica’s second clutch was at the same time as Lupe’s first.
3. You might have trouble with heating. What’s the top of the cage like? If the top is open screen, then no problem, you can heat it as easily as a tank. But if the bulb has to be inside it, then I have to so, no, it’s not good for a collared. They need very hot lights, and they are very active jumpers. I actually upgraded my trio from a 75 gallon (21 inches high) to something 7 inches taller because my male could jump against the top screen so easily he’d gotten a chafed nose. Most of them don’t do that if they’re captive-bred, but Pancho isn’t exactly the smartest monkey in the barrel, so after a few days he’d start thinking "Hey, maybe if I try the same exact thing one more time..." But even though most of them don’t smash against the screen like that, with an internal bulb we’re talking about a danger that is not only lower than that, but also far more dangerous.



11/03/09  03:01pm

 #2091543


Winterborn
View Profile



  Message To: JackAsp   In reference to Message Id: 2091526


 Interested in getting a collard

Yeah, the bulb fitting is inside the viv. I have a bulb guard though, used to house an adult corn in there and I never allow any reptile easy access to a naked hot bulb.

But if its still not suitable I’ll either look into something else on the list, possibly grass lizards, or if I really want a collard, might look into doing a swap for a more suitable viv... Depends how much you guys can talk me round to how awesomly awesome they are ^_- lol



11/03/09  03:44pm

 #2091551


JackAsp
View Profile



  Message To: Winterborn   In reference to Message Id: 2091543


 Interested in getting a collard

The wattage for a collared is a higher than you’d use for a corn. I think the guard would still be hot. Plus, we’re talking about an animal that can easily jump higher than that, so they’d be eye-level often with very high-wattage UV lighting. Unless you blocked it from shining horizontally, in which case most of the cage would be too dark.
People who use 40 breeders have the light above the screen, so there’s unlimited space use of that 36X18X18 area. It’s big enough to use, just not necessarily big enough to use once you make room for a "Do not go here" area, you know?
Collareds are great lizards, but they’re generally better suited for 40s/55s/75s than for box-type caging. I do now use a wooden cage for my adults, but it’s a very large wooden cage, with a hinged screen top, and the lights on the outside.



11/03/09  04:02pm

 #2091554


Winterborn
View Profile



  Message To: JackAsp   In reference to Message Id: 2091551


 Interested in getting a collard

Seeing that I dont have the right accomodation for one, then I might give them a miss this time and keep them in mind for the future. I feel like I really need to do a whole lot of researching on these.

But thanks for such informative answers and helping me come to a decision. Could be back here in the future ^_^



11/03/09  04:09pm

 #2091701


Chippychop
View Profile



  Message To: Winterborn   In reference to Message Id: 2091554


 Interested in getting a collard

the key to success is research!!!keeping a collard is a big responsibility they have specific needs .but once you can accommodate for them it’s a blast!!!!mine eats from my hand and always wants to run !!!!they have amazing personalities!!!!CHIP



11/03/09  09:52pm

 #2091758


JackAsp
View Profile



  Message To: Chippychop   In reference to Message Id: 2091701


 Interested in getting a collard

Really, you might simply look into trading the cage for a tank. Call a few pet shops (the mom and pop ones; chains probably won’t deal with used) and see what you can get for it. You might well walk away with something bigger. even if it’s the same size, it will be more useable for your needs than what you’ve got now. (It’s funny. I was so proud of myself about finally being on the verge of shifting most of my animals into big but space-efficient stackable cages, and what do I end up deciding to breed? Collareds!)

Setup is pretty basic, as long as you know the rules about lighting and rock placement. Tank, screen, heat/light/UVB, a timer, sand, water dish, climbing stuff, one ot two caves, something to bask on that doesn’t suck heat away (it’s harder, for example, to get good hot basking temps on a really big solid rock, but if you put, say, a hollow ceramic one on top of that, the heat will concentrate on top of THAT just fine,) an infrared temp gun, a food dish for annoying it to eat vegetables (some are better about doing so than others) some calcium dust, and a lot of bugs. Sand isn’t a must, but if temps are right they eat and therefore poop a LOT, even adults often 2-3 times a day, so... if they aren’t on sand, you’ll wish they were, because keeping up on the spot-cleanings will be a smarty pants. Also cleaning-related: go easy on very course-textured rocks. And on branches that still have bark on them. (Fat, horizontal, elevated planks of driftwood are much enjoyed, though.)

I don’t have any females to send out, and to be honest the way the weather is bouncing all over the place I’ll be keeping my little males until spring, but if you do get a cage together and nobody here says "Hey, I’ve got some baby females!" I can steer you to a couple of breeders who don’t post here, but have been working ith them for about a decade, and if you deal with either of them they’ll give you a nice hefty earful of help. Their advice on temps will differ from one another’s slightly, but they do each make the system they use work quite well. Most of the information that "I" could "give" you is actually stolen from them anyway. The rest is mostly just personal observations, like "Lupe apparently prefers a milder thermal gradient than the other specimens," or "Chica has a star on her butt."



11/03/09  11:51pm

 #2091785


Winterborn
View Profile



  Message To: JackAsp   In reference to Message Id: 2091758


 Interested in getting a collard

Well I’ve looked at the tanks you guys all use and tbh, feel like I’ll struggle to find one like that. I’m in the UK, have been keeping reps for 5yrs and I’ve not seen one like them, so its possible if I were to go with a collard, I may have to look at importing or making one. Importing would cost a bomb in delivery I’m assuming because if size and weight, and I have zero building skills lol I will have a good hard look though, you never know, I might cone across something.

Being in the UK I have noticed collards arent very popular. I think I’ve only cone across one reptile stockist that stocks collards, breeders are very rare.

And I didnt know they ate veggies! All the care sheets I’ve looked at have just mentioned crickets! So is their veggies diet the same as beardies? oh and I want to ask about supplements. Many care sheets have mentioned its not mandatory and most suggest only calcium supplement only. Is that calcium with or without D3? Is there any need for vitamin supplement at all?



11/04/09  04:34am

 #2092070


JackAsp
View Profile



  Message To: Winterborn   In reference to Message Id: 2091785


 Interested in getting a collard

Oh! I didn’t realize you were overseas. yeah, everybody I know of in the U.S. Most breeders, in fact, seem to be within the lizards’ natural geographic range.

Some are more omnivorous than others. I’ve got one or two that have never shown any interest, so I cheat by gutloading the insects with reptile-friendly vegetables like zuchini. One of my hatchlings was taking vegetables out of a dish from the start, and the females always get a lot more omnivorous when they’re gravid or post-gravid, probably because they’re craving trace elements. Or, maybe because they’re just eating everything in sight then.

Calcium without D3 is safer as long as their UVB needs are being met. Most UV bulbs decay so rapidly, though, that unless you’re using something top-quality like a Mega-Ray the D3 starts to have its pros as well as cons.

The guy I got my trio from also uses a liquid avian supllement. Some do, some don’t. I dust high-phosphorus prey items such as superworms, and I usually offer crickets plain. Babies get one dusted meal per day no matter what, though. So if the first feeding is dusted mealworms, I’ll follow up with plain crickets, but if all they get that day is crickets, then the first batch of crickets will be dusted. Really high-calcium bugs like silkworms are just fed plain. And the only moisture sources I give crickets, mealworms, or superworms are vegetables with a good calcium to phosphorus ratio.

It seems to work. one of my July hatchlings has, as far as I know, never voluntarily eaten a vegetable in his life. But he’s enormous for his age, and seems to be in great health. A lot of calcium powders also contain Vitamin A, but I feel safer avoiding those in favor of letting them make their own from vegies, even if for some I have to hide those vegies inside insects.

It’s odd that large tanks are so scarce there. I knew that wooden box-type enclosures were more popular overseas, but I’d think there’d still be large tanks around for fish. Is it just that they’re very expensive, or is it that unusual for people there to keep large tanks of fish? Here in U.S., people often use tanks for everything, even species that glass and screen are completely inappropriate for, so I suppose we might have more bouncing around on the market just because of that.



11/04/09  07:28pm

 #2092188


Winterborn
View Profile



  Message To: JackAsp   In reference to Message Id: 2092070


 Interested in getting a collard

large tanks are often wooden. But I was refering to the tanks with mesh tops, they are the ones that are few and far between. I have seen a few, but all under 3ft long and I’d prefer to go with something roomy as possible. The only other option would be to try and find a 3ft wooden tank that comes flat packed and make my own top for it. OR, maybe slice a nice sized round hole out the top of the one I already have and mesh that and place the heat lamp over that. As for the UV, would a guard be ok for the UV? They dont get so hot. Back when I had my water dragon, he used to sleep on top of his lol

Haha I never knew a lizard would require so much work before I’ve even aquired it! Lol but I’m not giving up just yet, collards are number 1 in the list.



11/05/09  04:40am

 #2092277


JackAsp
View Profile



  Message To: Winterborn   In reference to Message Id: 2092188


 Interested in getting a collard

A close-range, relatively-low-to-the-floor UV bulb that runs 12 hours a day or more is terrible for their eyes. They have minimum safe distances which are not provided by your cage structure. In fact, even above the screen, they often need to be elevated. I had to install a closet bar above my setup in order to use MVB lights safely. Oh, the bulb’s still fairly close, only a few inches above the screen, actually, since there’s still room between the screen and the basking spot, but it is nonetheless elevated.

A striplight within the cage, combined with a more convetional bulb for heat, might be safe, but you’d need something that kept them from climbing on the strip bulb and loosening it, but still allowed UVB to pass through. Your suggestion of cutting a hole in the top is better, although I would actually say cut a BIG, rectangular hole over most of the top. If you’re limited to only one place to put the bulb, then there are very limited experiments you can do as far as habitat options, and collareds do appreciate getting things changed around once in a while to keep from getting bored. Habitat follows lighting, so a mesh cover gives you far greater flexibility over habitat.

Any time a lizard sleeps hanging onto the bulb guard, I tend to suspect that’s a good sign that its intended basking spot isn’t doing the job adequately. If you do the cut-and-screen idea, and get an external porcelain lamp, you don’t have to worry about overheating the wood or the shield, so you can go with a higher wattage bulb if necessary and get the rocks/branches plenty warm enough.

I like to use all three dimensions of their enclosure. So do they. The floor level is coolest, and then when they climb higher they’ve got a very hot elevated area, milder warm elevated areas, and elevated areas that are about the same temperature as their floor. Using a lot of screen in the top gives you the option of making a basking spot at each end, one hotter than the other, and then you can put a few horizontal running branches between them without making their ground space too cluttered or shady. You can also get a warm spot with a hot spot on it by using a large heavy brick as the base of the basking platform and then putting a weaker conductor such as driftwood on top of it, so they can change their basking temperature dramatically just by moving a couple inches. It’s also possible, if necessary, to warm the floor mildly by providing undertank heat under part of it. I’ve only done that with very new hatchlings that I wasn’t sure would be smart enough to come out and bask in the morning. I used an undertank heater on a timer so it turned on right when the light did and made sure they woke up. I doubt it was necessary, but it certainly didn’t hurt. I’ve yet to see a baby refuse to eat on its first morning.



11/05/09  11:18am

 #2093010


Winterborn
View Profile



  Message To: JackAsp   In reference to Message Id: 2092277


 Interested in getting a collard

thanks for all the great info, jack, and for the links you sent me!

I’ve given it all some thought and I’ve decided to wait a bit longer for a pair of collards, I’m going to save the space I have for a rescue that will need a home much more. You never know, maybe one day I’ll come across a collard that will need much needed tlc. So many reps out there dont get the homes they deserve and I feel a need to at least do my bit.

I’m going to keep all this info though, I’m sure I will need it all one day.



11/07/09  01:53pm

 #2093059


JackAsp
View Profile



  Message To: Winterborn   In reference to Message Id: 2093010


 Interested in getting a collard

I hear you on that.



11/07/09  04:22pm

 #2093556


JackAsp
View Profile



  Message To: JackAsp   In reference to Message Id: 2093059


 Interested in getting a collard

Hey, that’s funny. Sometimes I reread long posts to see how many typos I missed, and I just noticed that the site changed "pain in the... let’s say ’donkey’ so it doesn’t changed again" to "smarty pants." I wonder how often stuff like that happens unnoticed?



11/08/09  11:12pm


Back to Collard Lizards Forum   Forums   Home   Members Area