Collard Lizards - Collared Lizard Eye Help???

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#2082235

Avla
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Collared Lizard Eye Help???

My lizard has recently just got done shedding, well as I was cleaning out her cage I noticed that one of her eyes was red and the other had a flap covering it, as it was sealed shut. I thought it was just irritation from her skin shedding, I placed food in her cage but she wouldn’t eat then shortly after both of her eyes where sealed shut, so I went over to Petco and bought some Vita-Spray to help with her skin and about 5 minutes after I sprayed some on her I could see her eyes get puffy and the skin popped off of her eyes, but a clear liquid came out of it, so I placed mealworms in her cage immediately to see if she would eat, she saw it but wouldn’t eat, then she called back into her log and later I tried feeding her again to find that her eyes where sealed shut again...it looks like a flap of skin has just closed her eyes. And if she can’t see, she can’t eat unless she is force fed, which is hard to do because she is stubborn. xD
This is the first time I have seen this, so if anyone has any answers it would be great help.

10/09/09 02:58pm

#2082278

Mbwrink
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Message To: Avla In reference to Message Id: 2082235

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

All lizards have a third nictating eyelid meant to protect the eye, which is what your probably seeing. However if it is repeatedly being used then he may have an irritation or infection. An irritant may come from any particularly dusty substrate. Calci sand, walnut shell,, bark, etc. Anything other than playsand can be likely. You can try spraying the eyes with a water bottle sprayer full of warm water to clear and particles. For an infection of the eye you can use terramycin which can be obtained on LLLreptiles site. Finally what lighting are you using there was for a time several types of reptile lights which put out so much UV they were burning the cornea of lizards who were keeping there eyes closed all of the time. Information can be fouind about that on UV guide UK site. Finally Mellisa Kaplan’s site has good information about eye problems. I will giive you links to all three.
http://www.anapsid.org/eyebulge.html

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/reptile-supplies/vitamins-medicines-and-cage-cleaners/-/terramycin-eye-ointment/

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor.htm

10/09/09 06:03pm

#2082287

Avla
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Message To: Mbwrink In reference to Message Id: 2082278

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

Oh, yes. I do use Calcium sand. I also, use a 75 watt basking light, which will need changing soon. I will try what you said and check out those links. Thanks!

10/09/09 06:45pm

#2082305

Mbwrink
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Message To: Avla In reference to Message Id: 2082287

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

The wattage of the light is not relevant as long as the animal has at leat 100 degree baskingspot. The type of light the site is talking about are UV emiiters, what are you using for UV? Is the basking bulb an MVB bulb or do you have another light like a flourescent which is providing the necessary UV B component for D3 synthesis. Clarify above that the eye is sealed shut. Is there a crust on it or are you seeing what is porbably the nictating eyelid. Finally provide me with full details of you husbandry, enclosure size, lighting, heating, diet, susbtrate and supplementation.

10/09/09 08:13pm

#2082312

Avla
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Message To: Mbwrink In reference to Message Id: 2082305

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

I believe she has photo-kerato-conjunctivitis, as stated in one of the links you posted, the light is an MVB bulb.
But, her eyes looks exactly as the one of the bearded dragon on the website.
She is in a 55 gallon tank, her diet varies from crickets, mealworms, etc. I use a Vita-Sand by Zoo Med, I use a calcium supplement by T-Rex and I also use Vita-Spray.

10/09/09 08:35pm

#2082332

Mbwrink
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Message To: Avla In reference to Message Id: 2082312

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

If that is the case get her to a vet and replace the bulb and the calci sand!

10/09/09 09:31pm

#2082391

JackAsp
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Message To: Mbwrink In reference to Message Id: 2082332

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

I would go entirely without sand until the eye is better. I’m not anti-sand. I use it myself. But the advantages (harder to run on, so better exercise when restricted to a cage/ easier for ownrs to clean poops off of/ etc) aren’t big enough to lose the use of an eye over.
In the very short run, eye drops are bettter than nothing, but in the longer run, there is better advice already given.

10/10/09 02:26am

#2082443

Avla
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Message To: JackAsp In reference to Message Id: 2082391

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

Thanks for the help! I am taking her to the vet today.

10/10/09 11:20am

#2082444

Avla
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Message To: JackAsp In reference to Message Id: 2082391

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

Thanks for the help! I am taking her to the vet today. :)

10/10/09 11:22am

#2082968

JackAsp
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Message To: Avla In reference to Message Id: 2082444

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

So what did the vet say?

10/11/09 11:39pm

#2083102

Avla
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Message To: JackAsp In reference to Message Id: 2082968

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

I was told to let her soak up natural sunlight instead of using a UVB light until her eyes heal, change the bedding, and keep her eyes clean. I have been doing as told and her eyes are no longer closed, but I see her nictitating eyelid, she still hasn’t taken live food so I have been crushing up meal worms and force feeding so she has something in her system, but she has been drinking water on her own. I am taking her to a different vet tomorrow to see if they say anything different, she is quite old though.

10/12/09 02:13pm

#2083109

Mbwrink
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Message To: Avla In reference to Message Id: 2083102

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

Do not put her under stress by force feeding her at this point, a little time with out eating is not life threatening. Just give her soaks in water to keep her hydrated!

10/12/09 02:21pm

#2083114

Avla
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Message To: Mbwrink In reference to Message Id: 2083109

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

I’ve just been putting little drops from the crushed mealworms onto her lips and keeping her under close supervision.

10/12/09 02:41pm

#2083327

JackAsp
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Message To: Avla In reference to Message Id: 2083114

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

I don’t think a little liquid on the nose is really forcing. One thing though. I wouldn’t use mealworms. Try canned bearded dragon or monitor food or something like that. You can water it down with pediatric electrolyte fluid.

10/13/09 12:41am

#2083805

Avla
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Message To: JackAsp In reference to Message Id: 2083327

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

I took her to a different vet again today, they gave her some fluids, opened up her eyes, and told me to force feed her some critical care 4-6 times a day. They don’t know what is wrong with her, but they said she is defiantly ill, if she doesn’t improve within the next day they agreed with me that it would be best to put her to sleep.

10/14/09 10:42am

#2083820

Mbwrink
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Message To: Avla In reference to Message Id: 2083805

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

If they don’t know what is wrong with her then they are not experienced reptile vets. Unfortunately that is the case with most of them. I would take that advice with a grain of salt. How old is this animal? I have had a bearded dragon down with a parasite infection and my Collared with an RI. Both took more than a 1 1/2 months to cure and 1 1/2 months to get feeding again because the antibiotic treatment messed up the internal flora of their stomachs. Even by finding vets that treat reptiles I have found it useful to have more than one opinion but still have found that I needed more than one to get through things. There is Vet link by country and state on this website, Google the Herp vet connection also. You can also check the membership of ARAV. DON"T SAY DIE YET! Finally you mentioned the need to open the animals eyes, are they crusted shut? If they are, is the animal having trouble breathing and is keeping its mouth open? Is they any mucus or popping noises? Could you post any picture of the animal for us to see?

10/14/09 11:26am

#2083882

Avla
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Message To: Mbwrink In reference to Message Id: 2083820

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

Her eyes are open now and she is doing much better.
Unfortunately, there is only about two herp vets in my small area and not many people here have reptiles, the others are hours away.
I didn’t know her exact age when I got her, but I have had her for about two years, so I am guessing between 6-8.
She is taking well to the Critical Care and her color is a lot brighter and she has been more active.
There was no crust, mucus, or anything of that nature. It just looked like something had gone wrong in her shedding, but as I said before they are open now.
She is also a lot smaller than the average collared lizard, so she is harder to examine.

10/14/09 02:15pm

#2083891

Avla
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Message To: Mbwrink In reference to Message Id: 2083820

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

Here is a photo I took a few days ago, this is what her eyes looked like...
Hope that’s big enough to see.

10/14/09 02:45pm

#2083914

Mbwrink
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Message To: Avla In reference to Message Id: 2083891

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

When her eyes are open is she still using the nictating lid to shelter them, or does she just sit aorund a lot with hers eyes closed? Is she prefering the colds side or is she basking?

10/14/09 03:53pm

#2083924

Avla
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Message To: Mbwrink In reference to Message Id: 2083914

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

I have been seeing her nictating lid when they are open, she has been going to both sides, basking and cooling.

10/14/09 04:16pm

#2083931

JackAsp
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Message To: Mbwrink In reference to Message Id: 2083914

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

Wild longevity rarely exceeds 4 years, due to predators and weather fluctuations and whatnot, so I doubt age is a factor. 12 may or may not be geriatric, kind of like with cats, but 6 is nothing. And if she’s small, then she’s probably only about 4. Females take longer than males to grow up and the stress of capture and adaptation probably stunted her a bit. I’ve heard of plenty of WC adults lasting another decade or more in captivity, so while that still doesn’t help with your eye problem, it’s at least one less thing for you to worry about. You’ve got an eye problem stressing her at a time of year that they’re more prone to go off their feed anyway, so it’s kind of a double whammy, but that doesn’t mean it’s not beatable. Actually, speaking of people with Crots that live forever... have you tried asking Eve, who runs the Suncharmers.com website? She’s very active in the Collared Lizards section of Kingsnake.com.

10/14/09 04:27pm

#2083943

Avla
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Message To: JackAsp In reference to Message Id: 2083931

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

She was not wild caught, my grandma actually got her for me at Petsmart.
I’m not sure when female collared lizard reach sexual maturity, but I have heard males reach maturity within their first year.
So, with that I would like to point out that she had eggs the week after I got her, two years ago. And so I am not sure on her age.

10/14/09 05:01pm

#2084085

Reptileruler1
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Message To: Avla In reference to Message Id: 2083943

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

well most if not all collared lizards you see for sale in pet stores are wild caught.

10/14/09 11:19pm

#2084108

JackAsp
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Message To: Avla In reference to Message Id: 2083943

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

Petsmart is wild-caught. If it’s a leopard gecko or bearded dragon, it’s captive-bred. But if it’s a collared lizard, anole, ribbon snake, or other so-called "junk animal," it’s the result of people going out with their friends, taking eveything that isn’t nailed down, and running to sell it to the local wholesaler before it dies.

I’ve had pet shop clerks even TELL me they were sure all their herps were captive bred, even when every single animal they’d just gotten in stock was a sickly-looking adult. The upwardly-mobile sales/management types will sometimes outright lie, and staff who don’t know will often just guess.
You were told correctly about males. Mine was breeding at five months, although sizewise he was still a juvenile. The females were breeding at 8-9 months, but they were raised under ideal circumstances. Not me bragging. The credit for that goes to the breeder I got them from, since it was only a month before breeding season anyway when I got them. All I really did was set up basking areas, throw crickets in there, and say "Hey, you kids aren’t old enough to be doing that!"

Wild females normally go into puberty after their first hibernation, but they continue to grow even longer than males despite males getting larger, which is why I assume that a very small adult female was probably also a very young one. You’ll never figure out her exact birthday, but it sounds like there’s enough data to form a sort of ballpark hypothesis: pubescent female, + two years= still not a bad age to be a collared.

Seems to me that if you can keep her going and eventually fnd her reset button (I know that’s a scary "if," but hopefully you can do it,) the worst thing the eye probem is likely to do is make her go blind in that eye. Which is something to be avoided if at all, but not the worst thing that can happen. I got a cane toad a few years ago that was missing a foot, and she’s okay. And my female pine snake went completely blind on one side from a cataract, and never stopped being frisky, curious, and generally unfrightenable. Animals can handle a lot, if we can figure out how to help on the rough stuff.

10/15/09 12:07am

#2084112

JackAsp
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Message To: JackAsp In reference to Message Id: 2084108

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

I’m saying ’eye" singular, because if I understand correctly only one of them has the membrane issue, the other only needs to recover from conjuctivitis. But in case I’m wrong, I’m going to email a couple of the big guns and see what I can scrape up.

10/15/09 12:21am

#2084116

Avla
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Message To: JackAsp In reference to Message Id: 2084108

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

I did not ask if it was wild caught or bred-even if she was, she has been healthy and active the whole time I have had her. Even when I bought her she was healthy and the same after laying her eggs, this is the first time a problem has occurred. And I love her the same captive or wild. ;)
As I said before, rarely in my area are there reptiles-let alone reputable breeders.
And it has been mainly in one eye, the other one is on and off. Today I have seen improvement though! She’s even put on a little more weight.

10/15/09 12:45am

#2084137

JackAsp
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Message To: Avla In reference to Message Id: 2084116

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

Is the mouth open a lot? Not normal bask-gaping, but just sort of slightly, loosely cracked open? Apparently there’s a fairly common bacterial infection that gets into their respiratory tract and spreads into their eyes. The word I received was that warmer temperatures help, but ultimately the condition calls for antibiotics.
That’s about the extent of the information I got back. When I was emailing about the eyes, I sent that picture you posted, and apparently the mouth positioning looked very familiar. So, since sick animals do often have a few ups and downs before they stay down... figured I’d add it to the information pile.

10/15/09 02:22am

#2084292

Avla
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Message To: JackAsp In reference to Message Id: 2084137

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

Yes, I have noticed her mouth is slightly open.
Should I take her to the vet once more and provide them with this information? Or do you think the critical care will help over time?
I went out and got a new UVB today, do you think that will help?

Thanks!

10/15/09 02:52pm

#2084317

JackAsp
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Message To: Avla In reference to Message Id: 2084292

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

I would say call and ask on the phone. If you feel like you’re getting the runaround, then it’s not someone you want sticking a needle in your pet anyway. But, yes, call.
You might have to cover some distance, though. I’ve got a couple of local vets that I use sometimes for little stuff that’s above my own abilites but not a big deal by trained vet standards. But I’ve learned that for really big stuff, the place that’s an hour’s FAST drive each way leaves me with a live animal every time, even if one of the local places has already made it worse by prescribing a very wrong drug. Ideally, call and talk to every vet that you can see getting to. If you talk to someone that sounds great, make the appointment. If you never get passed average, then call back whoever sounded the best of the average ones. if you can at least have an appointment by the end of today, even though it wouldn’t actually be FOR today, that’s probably about the best you can hope for.
About the UV, I don’t know. it doesn’t sound like that was what caused the problem, and if it’s a good-quality light I don’t see it iritating her if natutral sunlight doesn’t. But I could be wrong. main thing is keep her warm and talk to the vet again. The other questions can be figured out while other wheels roll.

10/15/09 03:45pm

#2084330

Avla
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Message To: JackAsp In reference to Message Id: 2084317

Collared Lizard Eye Help???

Okay, thanks!
I won’t be able to get to the vet today, but they did tell me to call Friday (tomorrow) if she isn’t taking to the live food, which I will do.
Her eye looked a little different today, it looked like the nictitating eyelid but it didn’t look right (I could be wrong), I’ll take a picture when she gets done basking.

10/15/09 04:24pm

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