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 #711429


Caimanjay
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 Feeding ?

I have read every care sheet on the net, i can not get her to eat anything other than chicken heart and crickets,(wich i only gave her a couple) she wont touch pinkies, wich i read should be there main diet. any tips appreciated thanks in advance.



03/27/06  10:54am

 #711440


Caimanjay
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  Message To: Caimanjay   In reference to Message Id: 711429


 Feeding ?

a pic i like.



03/27/06  11:04am

 #713406


Caimanjay
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  Message To: Caimanjay   In reference to Message Id: 711440


 Feeding ?

no one like me because i have hybrids..i thought it was better here than kingsnake, ;)



03/28/06  12:50pm

 #713725


Razeraze
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  Message To: Caimanjay   In reference to Message Id: 713406


 Feeding ?

the cayman forum and alligator/crocodile fora is not always busy so you might have to wait for an answer.

i know my water monitor likes to eat in her pond. i rubb it on her lipps and if she doesnít take it i drop it next to her and she usually takes it right away.



03/28/06  05:03pm

 #714597


Caimanjay
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  Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 713725


 Feeding ?

thanks. it was meant in a joking manor...



03/28/06  11:37pm

 #714598


Caimanjay
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  Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 713725


 Feeding ?

thanks for the info . it was meant in a joking manor. just so ya know..



03/28/06  11:38pm

 #714682


Razeraze
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  Message To: Caimanjay   In reference to Message Id: 714598


 Feeding ?

hopefully some people with cayman and crocs will answer. good luck.



03/29/06  12:32am

 #714702


Exoticx
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  Message To: Caimanjay   In reference to Message Id: 711429


 Feeding ?

not sure if this is it but, i saw in ur other post that the temp was 70ís?
raise ur temp hopefully shell eat alittle better..



03/29/06  12:43am

 #719470


Caimanjay
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  Message To: Exoticx   In reference to Message Id: 714702


 Feeding ?

thanks, the care sheet said 76-78 for water i thought that sounded low i bumped it up to about 82. she seems more active now.



03/31/06  10:56pm

 #720459


Exoticx
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  Message To: Caimanjay   In reference to Message Id: 719470


 Feeding ?

your welcome, i swear everywhere i look it sais their ideal temp is around 84-90, so i keep my water and air around 86 degrees...someone please correct me if i am wrong,
thanx



04/01/06  05:33pm

 #720669


Nelson jacobson
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  Message To: Exoticx   In reference to Message Id: 720459


 Feeding ?

how big with that caiman get?



04/01/06  08:22pm

 #720965


Krokadilyanguy3
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  Message To: Nelson jacobson   In reference to Message Id: 720669


 Feeding ?

Your water temp is at 86? Thatís a tad bit to high and any higher starts to kill off everything like fish and plants. Keep the water temps at around 75-80į.


A lot of crocodilians rarely take to feeding after a few days of being in a new environment. Give it a few weeks and even then, I wouldnít stress out too much unless you start to see health issues. Other than that, double check the care and make sure you try all of the feeding techniques to get your animal feeding. If your animal is healthy, heíll eat when heís hungry.



04/01/06  11:43pm

 #722314


Exoticx
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  Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 720965


 Feeding ?

no, if you have read any care sheet it will tell you 84-90 degrees air and water, havent had any problems in fact at the warmer temps the crocs stay healthier as with snakes and all lizards, you should NOT have a temp of 75 degrees.



04/03/06  12:13am

 #723007


Krokadilyanguy3
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  Message To: Exoticx   In reference to Message Id: 722314


 Feeding ?

75-80į is the suggested water temps. For a caiman, I would suggest the higher end of the grid, maybe venturing into the low 80s, but you do not want high and constant water temps, nor do you want the entire water enclosure to have the same constant temp. If you have a small enclosure, I would not go above 80į, even for caimans. This is indicated for water temps.

For the Ambient air, sure 84-90 degrees is great, but you want your water and air temps to be differ from one another.

Iím also basing all of this on 10 years of personal experience, not just words.



04/03/06  04:59pm

 #723332


Krokadilyanguy3
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  Message To: Exoticx   In reference to Message Id: 722314


 Feeding ?

Why do some of my posts disappear?



04/03/06  07:49pm

 #727026


Exoticx
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  Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 723332


 Feeding ?

i hate to argue with you krok guy, and im not doubting your experience, but experience obviously isnt everything. i have devoted my spare time to my caiman by researching on how to take care of him the best way possible(endless hours)so anything i say on here is not coming from my experience but credentialed vets, biologists and other owners. 86deg. is NOT high it is optimum. the little guys preferred body temp is 84-93, SO how is my baby caiman who spends most of his time in the water, supposed to acheive that with a water temp of 75-80 ??? he cant!! ideal water temps are 81-88deg. and could even go higher. who knows better than a croc farm? no one. they maintain croc. at 88-90 deg.!! when the baby cant get their body temp to that optimim temp their immune system weakens, risks of fungal and other infections increases, and guess what else they STOP eating, and its a main cause for newbie deaths..just a little food for thought, and hopefully some helpful information for whoever is reading...



04/06/06  01:18am

 #727035


Exoticx
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  Message To: Exoticx   In reference to Message Id: 727026


 Feeding ?

also, i must have not noticed that i said my air was 86 as well. its difficult to keep that kind of heat in my caimans "space". i use a heat lamp, but other than that wam spot, ambient air temps are probably 80. which is why i made sure to maintain my 86 in the water. with lower water temps (80) i would have to raise my air temp to somewhere around 86-88 which would be a little harder, (its cold here so its hard ).
temps can get really hot in the air (100 deg.) as long as the water is 80 or so,



04/06/06  01:32am

 #727663


Krokadilyanguy3
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  Message To: Exoticx   In reference to Message Id: 727035


 Feeding ?

Quote:

hate to argue with you krok guy, and im not doubting your experience, but experience obviously isnt everything.



Only when you do not have any. At 10 years and going, I would assume to say that either luck is on my side or I just so happen to know what I am doing. Who knows.

Quote:

ideal water temps are 81-88deg. and could even go higher. who knows better than a croc farm? no one. they maintain croc. at 88-90 deg.!!



Do you know why? I do, and I can grant you that itís not for the health of the animal.

Quote:

when the baby cant get their body temp to that optimim temp their immune system weakens, risks of fungal and other infections increases, and guess what else they STOP eating, and its a main cause for newbie deaths..



Can I see stats. on that?
Now, tell me what happens to an exothermic animal that is kept in warm situations without the ability to maintain itself as it sees fit.

You seem to take on a lot of hearsay credentials, which is good to see that someone actually studies up on their animals, but, I would have to ask exactly where you are getting your information. A Crocodile, Alligator or Caiman Farm is in almost every attempt a bad idea to base your information off of. Not all vets are as intelligent as we hope them to be. I use to Study Veterinary Medicine and have worked with a few of these Doctors and trust me, every one has their strong points, but none are 100% reliable.
Caresheets are decent materials, but are only as good as the person who wrote it.

Think about this: Bodies of water rarely ever exceed 80įF and this includes the Nile, Australia and Mexico/S.A. where caimans are found. When the water temps do get higher than say 90įF Crocodilians will get out of the water and seek shade or burrow, which has been seen with niloticus, and porosus. But when the water gets that hot, itís either small bodies of water or in the shallow ends, which you wonít see anything sitting in water that warm, not even me

When someone asks me for caresheets on their animals I usually offer information about the animalís habitat, that is how I also learn about the animals I obtain which I know very little about. Itís easier that way and people learn more that way.

Without your animal being able to cool itself, it will get stressed, and is often a high cause of deaths among beginners. With every animal, you must learn the habitats the animal comes from, not what someone says will do. Sure, it may be working for you, but I highly doubt it will work for someone else for very long. But maybe Iím just lucky.

All of my crocodilians are housed the same, I have 18 long term animals that have been with me for at least 4 years, and my longest captive is 10. I got her when she was a baby that began my lucky frolic with these animals.

Now hereís the kicker, I have kept Niles for several years now and keep them as I described earlier without any trouble. I also keep my Saltwater in these same environmental circumstances. As with my caimans and alligators. The nifty thing is, each and everyone has successfully bred and lived within these same situations year after year after year without my intervention. I had to separate the alligators because itís harder to give these animals away to the few people I know are capable of keeping these animals. The Aussie native had never bred for me, but thatís because heís alone, though Iím sure heíd do fine as well.

Either way, take it as you will, just had to reply because people sometimes read these forums and I didnít want them to assume anything when it came to captive care. Study the animalís habitats, not how someone else does something, and when all else fails, read MY caresheet, or when itís done, my website. Great plug...

Oh yeah, Iím not arguing either. Let me know how that animalís doing in a few months from now.





04/06/06  05:37pm

 #728167


Razeraze
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  Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 727663


 Feeding ?

i donít want to argue with you krok guy because i know nothing on crocs. i do know adam briton is pretty knowledgable. here is what is on his site.Link



04/06/06  09:42pm

 #728378


Exoticx
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  Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 728167


 Feeding ?

well basically every single caresheet ive read , yes that link is very reliable i hear, and thats where some of my info came from, so all these TRUE profesionals are wrong and you are right? as i said im not doubting your experience but cmon now..i have yet to see or hear what you are saying ...anywhere!! a croc farm sees every croc as $$$ if they dont know what they are doing then no$$$. i agree, with a water temp of 86 will require a lower ambient temp. i figure if i lsten to hundreds of professionals( because i am not....yet) say those hundred have 10 yrs experience, thats 1000 years of croc experience, and when i hear the same info over and over again from all these sources how can it be false? am i really misinformed? i dont think so, but whatever. i think people can read and decide themselves how to heat their own newborns based on all the info we both have provided..
good day



04/06/06  11:34pm

 #728424


Krokadilyanguy3
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  Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 728167


 Feeding ?

Indeed, but as Iíve said earlier, these temps are still quite high and even Adam himself do not keep these animals at these temps. Mainly because all of the animals are outdoors, and he doesnít have any personal captives; Not since I last talked to him anyway. Letís also remember that Adam didnít write all of the page, just happens to be one of the names everyone knows.

I still stand by my water based Temps as Iíve had no issues nor have the people I have guided. In the wild, your animals would not see these water temps quite often, if at all and they are perfectly ok.

These high temps promote fast growth which often leads to many cases of malnutrition, and if anyone has seen an adult animal in a crocodile farm, will understand the effects these constant temps will cause. Mind you this is only referred to indoors farms as outdoor areas do not keep these temps on larger animals.

Also keep in mind, Iím not discussing air temps as it is perfectly ok to have temps in the 90s, and an even hotter hot spot, but I still detest in water temps higher than 85įF
After all, if it were doomed to fail, a lot of my animals would cease to exist...

Also keep in mind that the guys offer that when using these temps to allow your animal the ability to cool off, but with the air temps being a constant 90ish, and the water temps a constant fewer degrees than the air, youíll get nowhere on that idea as the animal is surrounded by constant heat, thus leading into rapid digestion and rapid growth. Not good. Any animal kept in an enclosure small enough to keep in a house is almost always unable to fluctuate temps properly, so thatís another drawback with having so much heat.

Again this all falls back to the wild, the animal has so many options to escape the heat by shade, deeper water, shaded water, burrows, etc., in captivity they get what is given and itís usually very little in options.

Itís late so the jumping is expected..



04/06/06  11:59pm

 #728488


Krokadilyanguy3
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  Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 728424


 Feeding ?

Before I start:
i agree, with a water temp of 86 will require a lower ambient temp.

So you agree.. Why is this thread still going on this particular topic?

"True professionals"
Dr Adam Britton, Yes a true professional by all means, but does not own any of the animals he studies, nor does the animals he study kept in doors, making all of these animals open to do as they will in the open space of options. Thus also making the realization of the fact that the water temps described are not even presented. So on and so forth.

Jacob Bar-Lev, Professional? Sure heís a Vet, but since little is known about this guy, my opinion about vets will hold true. Isnít this guy in California anyway? (Trust me, thatíd factor if he is.) Why do you think heís a professional? Just because his name is added on this page? Kaplanís name is on here.. Enough said on that..

Alta Brewer, Professional? Beats me, but I know she keeps Iguanas and bearded dragons..

Dr Fredric L. Frye, DVM, MSc, CBiol, FIBiol, FRSM; This guyís special, appearently. Heís very well respected in the herp field and in the text. Heís full of knowledge, indeed, but he does not own crocodilians, never did. And even then, did he write the temp į page? Nope. Professional no doubt.

Billy Heinbuch, Good guy, communicated with him daily on a few forums we both visit. He disapeared from a few, but I wonít tell anyone why. He only kept caimans some time ago, though, but I will find out if he wrote the Temp section. Professional? Depends on what you base is on that. Compared to me, No he is not his name just so happens to be on here as he helped in one way or another. Now, if you asked if he was a professional on Chelons and was basing the idea on him vs me. Hell yes.

Dr Fritz W. Huchzemeyer, Dr med vet, PhD, Professional, appearently. Doesnít keep crocodilians though..

Melissa Kaplan, HAHAHAHAHAHA! No seriously..

Ragnar Lonn, Who?

Tim Wiegmann, Great information highway, great interests, but I donít recall him ever having crocodilians.

John White, Takes great pictures, but doesnít keep crocodilians.


What do you plant as a Professional? One who studies them? Great, then Iím a professional. One who keeps them, Thatís awesome, I like being a professional. One who is widely known? Most of these guys know me, but only met Adam and Billy in person. Iím also known by a lot of members in our hobby. Yay again. Need a degree as a Vet tech or some field of study? Iím on a roll. Need a webpage? Iím almost there.. Iíve got other stuff to do. Maybe itís because Iím not published.. Oh wait. Youíll see the back of my head in one of the pics at the 04í Daytona show, heh.. I was also on TV, but it was for the news on the hurricane there. Either way, I can deffinately tell you Kaplan is no crocodilian expert, never kept them nor will she ever. I have also met her, sadly.. If all it takes is to have my name on a webpage to be a professional, then look around some more..

i have yet to see or hear what you are saying ...anywhere!!

Study the habitat of most particular crocodilians and you will find my information. And donít yell, itís not nice.

a croc farm sees every croc as $$$ if they dont know what they are doing then no$$$.

Yeah, but the money is for skin and meat. Fast growth equals faster money, not a healthy animal.

i figure if i lsten to hundreds of professionals( because i am not....yet) say those hundred have 10 yrs experience, thats 1000 years of croc experience, and when i hear the same info over and over again from all these sources how can it be false?

Who are you considering professionals? Especially these selected hundred? But yes, you are correct. Since you have been reading caresheets after caresheets, you should start to see a pattern, wanna know why? Take a guess.. Thatís why the information is all the same.

am i really misinformed?

Maybe.



04/07/06  12:55am

 #728518


Razeraze
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  Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 728488


 Feeding ?

well if i get one i will definately come to you for advise.

thank you for clearing that up.



04/07/06  01:31am

 #729564


Krokadilyanguy3
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  Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 728518


 Feeding ?

Thanks, I actually emailed Adam about whatís going on just to get further information.

Hereís the email I sent him.

*Hey Adam, Itís Zane with a different Email Address.

Anyhow, Iím emailing you in regards to a topic a few of us are having on a forum. The topic is general is about high water temperatures. One post is claiming that high temps such as the High 80įF to low 90įF temps, which are seen in contained croc farms are adaquate. I disagreed and went with the "follow the natural condition" attempt as I find that the mid 80ís water temps are generally a tad high as well since most bodies of water which contain crocodilians rarely ever get higher than 80įF. That is however my understanding and how I have been raising my own animals for 10 years without incident.

My advice was to offer a 75-80įF water temps, but for animals such as caimans, it wouldnít be a problem to go into the low 80s. Anyway, Iím dubbed as wrong since I am going against everyone that has printed a caresheet on these guys. I advised him that most caresheets are duplicates anyway, but Crocodilian.com came up so I went through it with everyone as I figured it would stand for and itís seems to be at an agreement, now. But, I was wondering what your Idea on the matter is since I am appearently the only one that runs the guidlines of natural duplication.

Also, Iím not saying the mid 80 water temps are a bad idea in general, just not a good idea when you are dealing with animals that are often kept in small enclosures that do not aid the animalís choices.

Here is a few things that I have posted starting with my follow up on the croc farm comment.

"You seem to take on a lot of hearsay credentials, which is good to see that someone actually studies up on their animals, but, I would have to ask exactly where you are getting your information. A Crocodile, Alligator or Caiman Farm is in almost every attempt a bad idea to base your information off of. Not all vets are as intelligent as we hope them to be. I use to Study Veterinary Medicine and have worked with a few of these Doctors and trust me, every one has their strong points, but none are 100% reliable.
Caresheets are decent materials, but are only as good as the person who wrote it.

Think about this: Bodies of water rarely ever exceed 80įF and this includes the Nile, Australia and Mexico/S.A. where caimans are found. When the water temps do get higher than say 90įF Crocodilians will get out of the water and seek shade or burrow, which has been seen with niloticus, and porosus. But when the water gets that hot, itís either small bodies of water or in the shallow ends, which you wonít see anything sitting in water that warm, not even me

When someone asks me for caresheets on their animals I usually offer information about the animalís habitat, that is how I also learn about the animals I obtain which I know very little about. Itís easier that way and people learn more that way.

All of my crocodilians are housed the same, I have 18 long term animals that have been with me for at least 4 years, and my longest captive is 10. I got her when she was a baby that began my lucky frolic with these animals.

Now hereís the kicker, I have kept Niles for several years now and keep them as I described earlier without any trouble. I also keep my Saltwater in these same environmental circumstances. As with my caimans and alligators. The nifty thing is, each and everyone has successfully bred and lived within these same situations year after year after year without my intervention. I had to separate the alligators because itís harder to give these animals away to the few people I know are capable of keeping these animals. The Aussie native had never bred for me, but thatís because heís alone, though Iím sure heíd do fine as well. "

And another post I made.

"75-80į is the suggested water temps. For a caiman, I would suggest the higher end of the grid, maybe venturing into the low 80s, but you do not want high and constant water temps, nor do you want the entire water enclosure to have the same constant temp. If you have a small enclosure, I would not go above 80į, even for caimans. This is indicated for water temps.

For the Ambient air, sure 84-90 degrees is great, but you want your water and air temps to be differ from one another."

Thanks for the input; Also, did you write everything on Crocodilian.com or was it sumed together by everyone and you just edited it? I posted in regards to it on the forum, just wanna make sure I was right before I keep leading everyone on that Iím smart.

Thanks again,
Zane

End email*

Iíll post his email once I hear back from him.



04/07/06  07:29pm

 #729880


Exoticx
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  Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 729564


 Feeding ?

why wouldnt you just say ííyou told him what you told me in a post earlier"? anyhow your first argument was that temps should be 75-80, now you are ok with temps above 80? that was my only point, my caiman seems to be doing very well and eating fine(knock on wood).temps reach 86 high 82 low in the water thats just how much it fluctuates at one set temp. and i still recommend it to ANYONE with a small caiman thats not eating (which is what this post was originally about). so give it up man, 75-80=you 80-86= me(which is actually lower than alot of of care sheets). so lets just worry about the baby not eating instead of whose right or wrong, which we both might be(right or wrong).just remember i only debated you because this croc was not eating at those temps you suggested, figured they might see a difference.

p.s.-trust me i am not yelling?



04/07/06  11:01pm

 #729882


Exoticx
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  Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 729564


 Feeding ?

why wouldnt you just say ííyou told him what you told me in a post earlier"? anyhow your first argument was that temps should be 75-80, now you are ok with temps above 80? that was my only point, my caiman seems to be doing very well and eating fine(knock on wood).temps reach 86 high 82 low in the water thats just how much it fluctuates at one set temp. and i still recommend it to ANYONE with a small caiman thats not eating (which is what this post was originally about). so give it up man, 75-80=you 80-86= me(which is actually lower than alot of of care sheets). so lets just worry about the baby not eating instead of whose right or wrong, which we both might be(right or wrong).just remember i only debated you because this croc was not eating at those temps you suggested, figured they might see a difference.

p.s.-trust me i am not yelling.



04/07/06  11:02pm

 #729986


Exoticx
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  Message To: Exoticx   In reference to Message Id: 729882


 Feeding ?

hey krok guy i dont know what to say, you emailed adam saying i said high 80ís to 90ís!!!!!(JUST REALIZED YOU SAID THAT) where in the he#$ do you get THAT!!! NOW I AM YELLING!! ITS ONE THING TO DEBATE, BUT TO TAKE MY WORDS OUT OF CONTEXT AND SAY I SAID 90 FOR THE WATER?????? JUST SO YOU WERE SURE ADAM WOULD TAKE YOUR SIDE YOU HAD TO EXAGGERATE MY OPINION. YOUR A PHONY, WHY DONT YOU SAVE ADAM AND YOURSELF SOME TIME AND READ HIS FRIGGIN CARE SHEET!!!!!! THATS WHERE I GOT THE MAJORITY OF MY STATEMENTS, NOW YOU ARE EMAILING THE GUY WHO TOLD ME..LOL....YOU JUST DONT MAKE SENSE!! WELL ADAMS SITE SAID 81-88 AND COULD GO HIGHER!!! SO WHAT DO YOU THINK HEíLL SAY???UHH MAYBE 81-88 AND COULD BE HIGHER...DUH. YOU JUST COULDNT ACCEPT THE FACT I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG...YOU CANT STAND TO BE WRONG CAUSE YOU HAVE 5 GAZILLION CROCS SO "YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING" LOL, I WAS SIMPLY TRYING TO GIVE SOMEONE ANOTHER OPINION BESIDES YOURS HOPEFULLY TRYING TO HELP A CROC IN NEED, SO JUST DROP IT. QUIT TAKING MY WORDS OUT OF TEXT, AND PLEASE DONT REPLY TO ANY FUTURE QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS I MAY POST, I AM DOUBTFUL OF YOUR ABILITY TO GIVE CORRECT CARE INFORMATION, I THINK YOU WOULD FIT RIGHT IN AT A "WEASEL" FORUM CAUSE YOUR SHADY AND RUDE, HEY JUST BUY A DOZEN OR SO WEASELS AND YOU COULD BE AN EXPERT THERE TOO!!!S O F O

I AM NOT USUALLY LIKE THIS YOU HAVE JUST GONE TOO FAR.



04/08/06  12:05am

 #730051


Krokadilyanguy3
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  Message To: Exoticx   In reference to Message Id: 729986


 Feeding ?

This is starting to get rediculous..

Quote:

hey krok guy i dont know what to say, you emailed adam saying i said high 80ís to 90ís!!!!!(JUST REALIZED YOU SAID THAT) where in the he#$ do you get THAT!!! NOW I AM YELLING!! ITS ONE THING TO DEBATE, BUT TO TAKE MY WORDS OUT OF CONTEXT AND SAY I SAID 90 FOR THE WATER??????



These are what you posted in regarding to the email I sent Adam. "ideal water temps are 81-88deg. and could even go higher. who knows better than a croc farm? no one. they maintain croc. at 88-90 deg.!!" Please read what has been written to Adam and then read what you wrote, or vise versa. Iím assuming we are debating water temps as thatís what I have been talking about this whole time, and when I wasnít I made clear of that, several times. Maybe you should do the same if your post was not in accordance to the waterís įF. I donít have the time nor the patience to study simple text gone wrong.

Quote:

JUST SO YOU WERE SURE ADAM WOULD TAKE YOUR SIDE YOU HAD TO EXAGGERATE MY OPINION. YOUR A PHONY, WHY DONT YOU SAVE ADAM AND YOURSELF SOME TIME AND READ HIS FRIGGIN CARE SHEET!!!!!! THATS WHERE I GOT THE MAJORITY OF MY STATEMENTS, NOW YOU ARE EMAILING THE GUY WHO TOLD ME..LOL....YOU JUST DONT MAKE SENSE!! WELL ADAMS SITE SAID 81-88 AND COULD GO HIGHER!!! SO WHAT DO YOU THINK HEíLL SAY???UHH MAYBE 81-88 AND COULD BE HIGHER...DUH.



You must not understand whatís going on here, nor have the concept to grasp basic English? Iím sure Adam will, Iíll let you know what he says.

Quote:

YOU JUST COULDNT ACCEPT THE FACT I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG...YOU CANT STAND TO BE WRONG CAUSE YOU HAVE 5 GAZILLION CROCS SO "YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING" LOL, I WAS SIMPLY TRYING TO GIVE SOMEONE ANOTHER OPINION BESIDES YOURS HOPEFULLY TRYING TO HELP A CROC IN NEED, SO JUST DROP IT.



I have 18 permanant crocodilians, please donít misquote me. Also, I wasnít debating your help, nor your advice. So, when you feel the urge to post again, reread the entire thread again before you do, I beg you. Thank you.

Quote:

QUIT TAKING MY WORDS OUT OF TEXT, AND PLEASE DONT REPLY TO ANY FUTURE QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS I MAY POST, I AM DOUBTFUL OF YOUR ABILITY TO GIVE CORRECT CARE INFORMATION, I THINK YOU WOULD FIT RIGHT IN AT A "WEASEL" FORUM CAUSE YOUR SHADY AND RUDE, HEY JUST BUY A DOZEN OR SO WEASELS AND YOU COULD BE AN EXPERT THERE TOO!!!S O F O



I will reply as I see fit. I donít care much for weasels, to pesky for me. Never did have a thing for most of their relatives either, thanks for the insulting though, I love the maturity you bring to this forum. And, Iím somewhat uncool in the world of Internet Lingo and Abbreviations, so what exactly does SOFO mean? Should I feel offended or were you just excited?

Quote:

I AM NOT USUALLY LIKE THIS YOU HAVE JUST GONE TOO FAR.



How so?

Quote:

why wouldnt you just say ííyou told him what you told me in a post earlier"? anyhow your first argument was that temps should be 75-80, now you are ok with temps above 80?



You must have missed the posts when I wrote that I agreed that venturing into the low 80s is ok and they are ok if given the animal had the ability to allow itself a choice in degree variations.
Also, just for the record, I never said anything about your housing after you described to us how you are housing your animal. I was under the impression when I posted after you that you had high degree temps on both land and water which I voiced my concern. After that, I just debated my half on water į variations. Scroll up, read and have fun.

Like I said, Iíll let ya know what Adam says.

Also, grow up a bit and chill out. Feel free to email Adam the link if you feel you have been misquoted. Also, his animal was eating, it wasnít what he was wanting but it was eating. I doubt a temp variation would tell this animal to eat one thing and not the other, it may, but doubtful. Sometimes these guys are just picky eaters, youíll find out soon enough if you ever come across more than one animal.

Either way, the reason heís not eating could be anything but with his pictures he has posted, I may have to assume the animal may feel insecure. Can you tell me why? Anyhow, I will drop this conversation until Adam emails is back and then I will only follow up with what he said and my thoughts on it, as I assume you will do as well. Other than that, Iím bored repeating myself, but if you feel that you should speak to me about this still, please just PM me or something. youíre making this rather personal.

All bickering aside, how is this animal doing? I assume you raised your temps as advised, did it work?



04/08/06  01:00am

 #730178


Exoticx
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  Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 730051


 Krokadilyanguy3

i am sorry for my agression and rudeness, i suppose i was confused on your demeaner while reading your replies. as for this bieng public i am sorry also, i am fairly new and dont know how to pm, but it started out public so yall should hear. and you havent insulted me in any way?

i voiced my VERY well researched opinion only to be told i was wrong, by someone i dont even know, thats what my problem is. you couldnt level with me. i posted adams info and you still didnt think that was enough, do you really think adam would put his name on a croc care sheet that could possibly jeopordize croc and human lives, if he didnt support it? why would his email be different than his own care sheet?

isnt this what these forums were made for? to voice our opinions, experience, and knowledge to better educate ourselves on these fairly unresearched animals? and when there are discrepancies we must be openminded and work together to find whats really "best" if possible.

fact of the matter is i cant find anywher that says 75-80, im sorry but i cant. i am experienced in alot of different areas in animal care and have been for over ten years as well. i am close friends with a biologist/ herpetologist professor who happens to have all the beautiful animals a herp. loves, (1 caiman)that i have helped care for for about 8 years. so, i guess my point is im not some noob just spitting something out there. i am very bluntly truthful.

so hopefully we can figure out whats goin on with these differences, if i am wrong i would like to know so i can better my care for the little guy, cause 10 degrees is a big difference in opinion, dont you agree?

now, all bickering aside. that animal may feel insecure because of a lower temp. how old is it? just like a human baby they need warmth to feel secure. or maybe its seeing a little to much foot traffic right now, if more than just myself walks in my room he gets a little "uneasy."as for raising heat to change their diet, your probably right i dont think it would change much. they will digest their food better which may result in them being more hungry and more willing to go for bigger prey.just an idea.

i also did a little research on there nat. habitats, and the temp range is feesible. sometimes captive animals need a little higher temp than they nat. would because they more than likely have adapted to their forever changing "wild" temperatures. (they may survive but it may not be optimum) hey, maybe thats why crocs are so cranky!!! their being kept too cold. ya think?

how old are you by the way?



04/08/06  03:04am

 #730583


Krokadilyanguy3
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  Message To: Exoticx   In reference to Message Id: 730178


 Krokadilyanguy3

Quote:

i also did a little research on there nat. habitats, and the temp range is feesible. sometimes captive animals need a little higher temp than they nat. would because they more than likely have adapted to their forever changing "wild" temperatures. (they may survive but it may not be optimum) hey, maybe thats why crocs are so cranky!!! their being kept too cold. ya think?



Lol, Probably.

To subdue the disagreement, weíre both correct and both wrong at the same time. Adam states that
We know that most crocs can tolerate a wide range of temperatures, and also
that preferred temperatures are different for every single one of the 23
species. With such a range of potential "wild" temperature regimes to draw
comparisons against, it can be very confusing deciding whatís best for
captive crocs. So, he says that both temps are good, but the higher temps are great for the animal in question. Which I agreed that the low 80s was on my mind, but he said 85 or even 86 wouldnít be too bad, so, I apologies for any insultious remarks I made and welcome to the board.

By the way, I sent you a message.



04/08/06  01:54pm
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