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 #269006


Crocs
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 How big do dwarf Caimans get?

I was wondering how big does a female dwarf Caimans get cause i was thinking of getting one cause i have a lot of free time on my hands



03/08/05  10:56pm

 #269655


MX 4 LIFE 16
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  Message To: Crocs   In reference to Message Id: 269006


 How big do dwarf Caimans get?

Females, 3-4 feet and males, 5-6 feet.

MX



03/09/05  06:53pm

 #269759


Crocs
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  Message To: MX   In reference to Message Id: 269655


 How big do dwarf Caimans get?

kool, thanks



03/09/05  07:51pm

 #269930


MX 4 LIFE 16
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  Message To: Crocs   In reference to Message Id: 269759


 How big do dwarf Caimans get?

No prob.



03/09/05  09:47pm

 #271029


CelticTigeress
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  Message To: MX   In reference to Message Id: 269930


 How big do dwarf Caimans get?

why not get on because they are cool?? I suggest researching them first and that means ALL breeds this seems rude but take into consideration the poor animal Lately I have seen many ignorant posts claiming either knowledge or the need, but the individual has no interest in the welfare of the animal NOR the knowledge to care for it. Personally Im sick of day in and day out answering the same bloody questions over and over until my head throbs so I figured ONE post. This doesnt go out to everyone the few might know who they are so here it begins.
Have you ever actually researched the potential Buy?Thinking "Now what happens if it gets six feet will I still want it?" the crocodillian species is NOT something to be kept due to it being Cool neat spiffy whatever the words are these days Its just as bad as some ignorant jerk getting a Gaboon viper JUST to have it. Now lets answer a few frequently asked questions.. by frequently asked I mean every bloody day because people are too bloody lazy to read the previous posts.

No, if you put them in a fifty gallon tank they will not stay small would you stay 2 foot if your mother so kindly crammed you into a two foot sock drawer because she didnt go and purchase the crib when you were born??I mean parents arent ignorant, when you take on the responsibility of something that could POTENTIALLY eat you you take on the responsibility of a child so to speak.a demented child but a child.... See its not like having a bird or a bunny you can cuddle with feed stroke and love...oh and if you forget to feed and water it it withers and dies...nope not gonna happen...forget to feed your bloody croc species and your liable to lose a part of you you have grown attached to.Now Im not giving a bad name to them they arent as bad as people think but when starved, they will bite..even then they might bite sometime down the road...are you ready to have those lovely teeth sink into the warm fleshy part of your hand???or are you gonna forget about it once your bit and not want it anymore? There are two types of Herpers in this world.. those that have been bitten those that will be bitten.. Im the first of the two.....matter of fact one of my babies broke my bloody index finger.....

What do they eat how big do they get what should I put them in.... let me answer all these together...If you HAVE to ask that if you HAVE to ask dis[position...forget about getting one..... Pick up a book and read... if your on here obviously you have internet....so type it up AND research...also if your a minor Most wont sell to minors, nor people without proper permits where applicable... and my BIGGEST issue.. you want to buy instead of bloody adopt one... so then we as rescuers (myself a few others) are stucvk with some malnourished forgotten case or the parents discover it in the bedroom and kill it or call us...we get swamped with more and well... then here one of us is fussing. Dont bother, if you have to ask common sense questions found in a book then forget of getting the caiman alligator what you want and read more.... start off with a nile monitor at least then they dont get....too big.... but they bite and you can start getting an idea... someone thinking they are ready for a large species of a carnivore like a croc after keeping an iguana for two years alive...wrong...

Cloud, I know you might find this rude (I know you all gasp..celtic princess rude/?not her heh)but I am freuqented with emails with people,"I have had my iguana for two years I want to adopt a alligator do you have any"IF I find someone wanting to adopt AND I have one to go out snake lizard croc...I question them speak with them via phone and have them fill out a printed application.Its how I always ran things, due to my love for the reptiles.

What others do is THERE business but coming here asking who has a gator for sale..aint gonna cut it....if your that needy then you can find one butr if your having to look do the research before we hear another horrid tale of a mistreated animal or it winds up with one of us guys because ti was to much to start off with.Again something like "Ive had a cornsnake for sixth months I want a hot" sixth months of ownin...Why bother? Those of us that keep hots have had YEARS of experiance want a hot? get a Green tree python and handle it every day JUST to get bit..then say "what if there were inch long fangs and venom" they are not a novelty nor an animal you can handle every day. they will make you WISH you were dead if they dont kill you.

Alligators will LATCH on and hurt....

Both are NOT for the inexperianced......

and thats all I have to say about that..aside from Im about ready to take a break WITH Bam from here sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh

Oh and if someone has told you,"An alligator only gets as big as the enclosure" I have some beachfront property in Arizona ill sell cheap...thirty bucks.You ultimately stunt their growth just a wee bit but they dont stay small.... keep that in mind
Caimans average 4-6 feet
Dwarfs 3-6 Not much different
Alligators 6-12 both a foot a year growth.....

"When you stare into the abyss the abyss stares long into you and when you battle Monsters see in the process you do not become one"

Celtic



03/10/05  10:56pm

 #289201


Paul n my boy Dawg
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  Message To: Crocs   In reference to Message Id: 269759


 Relatively Small and Nasty

I think the most important thing to recognize is that just because a Caiman stays relatively small is that their temperament can be very nasty. Specifically i have run across a few dwarf caimen that were 4 times as nasty as any American Alligator that I have met (yet the Amer Alli were 4 times as large.

In fact the temperament of Dawg is yet to be determined. Diamond (Mitch) has only been cross breading these guys for 4 years. The 4 year olds i have met have been very docile and "tame" but who knows what happens 5...6....7.....20yrs from now.

For me I will still love my guy no matter how nasty he gets. I spent my high school years in PNG and we had a pet salty...can not get much nastier and bigger than that..................

.........Dawg rumbles "grrrrrrrrr" "we’ll see about that"



03/28/05  12:54pm

 #649272


Pocketracr
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  Message To: Paul   In reference to Message Id: 289201


 Relatively Small and Nasty

so iíve done some research........now what the price range for a baby female dwarf caiman?? i figured that a caiman this size, even thought they will grow bigger, wont totally freak out my mom, and i do have expierience, my neighbor has 2, one tipped my finger one time while i was feeding them.



02/13/06  10:14pm

 #657926


Pugmar
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  Message To: Pocketracr   In reference to Message Id: 649272


 Relatively Small and Nasty

Okay, youíve done your research and your mom isnít going to mind a 12 inch, cute little croc that is in a 50 gallon tank. What happens when it is 5 feet long and taking 3/4 of the space in your room? Are you going to be able to take the croc with you if you decide to go to college, No. What happens if you can only afford a small apartment in the next few years, wheres your croc going to go? These are some of the things that you have to think about.



02/19/06  10:22pm

 #657963


Pocketracr
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  Message To: Pugmar   In reference to Message Id: 657926


 Relatively Small and Nasty

ok, but dwarf female caimans only get about 3 or 4 feet. thats what is stated in most, if not all books and websites ive researched in. i know that is still pretty large, but its not going to take up 3/4 of my room.



02/19/06  10:34pm

 #658882


Krokadilyanguy3
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  Message To: Pocketracr   In reference to Message Id: 657963


 Relatively Small and Nasty

Your land area should consist of 48 sq. ft. and your water area at about 80 sq. ft. for a 4í animal.

So, in other words, Unless you have a very large room, the enclosure will take up most, if not all of it.



02/20/06  03:23pm

 #659053


Pocketracr
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  Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 658882


 Relatively Small and Nasty

in the summer, i was planning on building an enclosure outside.
and keeping a smaller, about 6 or 7 foot, by 6 or 7 foot, and as tall as needed so it wont escape, with a pond, which means it will be raised about 2 or 3 feet inside for the winter. the outdoor will be 10ft by 10ft, with a 6ft by 3 1/2ft pond give or take.



02/20/06  05:12pm

 #659825


Snakeman102889
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  Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 658882


 Relatively Small and Nasty

Ok wait there is no way a 4 ft dwarf caimen requires a 80 sq ft of water and 48 for land. The zoo doesnít even have them in those. I have researched these species and i have one male that is 5 ft that was givin to me as a birthday gift when i was 12 years old. Now me and my dad built a cage that takes up about half my basement Its is about 3/4 water that goes down to about 3 ft deep and raises up and then it is 1/4 land astrotuff. We have UV lighting or it we feed live fish and dead pigs, sometimes the live rabbit or rats. But my point is my cage is about 12 ft by 7ft and that is big enough. I know some people who keep there is rooms just made for them and those rooms dont have 80 sq ft of water that is way 2 much for a 4 ft animal even 2 big for an alligator.



02/20/06  11:35pm

 #660684


Krokadilyanguy3
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  Message To: Snakeman102889   In reference to Message Id: 659825


 Relatively Small and Nasty

84sq. ft. is ok, I suppose.
Also take notice in the key words in the last post.

Bigger the room the better, and the people I know who have dedicated whole rooms to thier animals are often larger than this, being as most homes I have been in and built usually have 12íx12í rooms. Iím sure rooms are be smaller, but even a small 10íx10í room will provide adaquate space for my above statement, only losing about 28sq. feet or so to my advise.

A four foot animal can manage in a smaller cage such as yours, but it only provides enough room for the animal to move around without touching the sides of your enclosure, which is good but, just enough isnít good enough for me.

Besides, thereís more to keeping crocodilians than just íenoughí housing..

I stand by what I said.



02/21/06  04:38pm

 #661031


Pocketracr
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  Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 660684


 Relatively Small and Nasty

ok, so are those cages big enough? i plan on getting a hatchling anyway.



02/21/06  07:20pm

 #662342


Krokadilyanguy3
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  Message To: Pocketracr   In reference to Message Id: 661031


 Relatively Small and Nasty

No, still too small.

In oneís mind, keeping crocodilians is like keeping fish. Nothing really fancy about keeping the fish itself, but if you have the enclosure decked out, that brings to life the fish.

When you look at a gold fish in a small bowl, you think, "eh". When you see one in a very well decorated enclosure, you think "Now thatís something."

Crocodilians are the same way. If one of us walked in to look at your place, and noticed you had a caiman, we would be neated towards it because you share the same passion, but in an enclosure like that, no one would be impressed. When people see my enclosures, even in pictures, my enclosures are what stands out. I get more responses about the back ground than I do the actual animals. This is also a reason why I have more pictures of the animals in the enclosures and not in my hands, like many other people have.

In a 10x10í enclosure, you will not be able to present your animal, just show it. Everything you tried to house with it will be demolished, but itís liveable; I guess..

If youíre gonna do it, do it right.

Good thing is, Paleosuchus generally grow slow, so thatís a plus and gives you time to fund your project. Your idea seems great, just need to upgrade the sq. footage.

As for the zoos and keeping crocodilians, What zoos have you been too? Nearly every single one Ive been to had way more room than I recommend, and most had even more than I give.
The two that didnít; one housed an adult (13-15í) green anaconda with 3-5í alligators and the other only had babies.

Which picture are you more drawn too?
Both are mine..





02/22/06  03:56pm

 #662367


Razeraze
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  Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 662342


 Relatively Small and Nasty

i know with monitors the general rule is twice as long as the monitor and as wide as the monitor.

as of right now that monitor is 4+ feet and in a 44.5sq foot enclosure. with a 3x6 foot water tub. the first pic is me in the cage with her. she has plenty of room to swim/grow and as she gets bigger she will get a cage at least 8í by 16í ot 10í x 16í

for a 4-5 foot caiman i think 50 sq feet should be plenty.



02/22/06  04:13pm

 #662383


Pocketracr
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  Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 662367


 Relatively Small and Nasty

ok



02/22/06  04:23pm

 #662388


Razeraze
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  Message To: Pocketracr   In reference to Message Id: 662383


 Relatively Small and Nasty

just remember try and give them as much space as you can.



02/22/06  04:27pm

 #662643


Krokadilyanguy3
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  Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 662388


 Relatively Small and Nasty

Quote:

for a 4-5 foot caiman i think 50 sq feet should be plenty.



With an enclosure that small, I canít help but feel the animal is nothing more than a status symbol; or an animal in quarantine..



02/22/06  06:51pm

 #662693


Razeraze
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  Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 662643


 Relatively Small and Nasty

mine digs burrows/ lays eggs/swims.

the same she would do in a bigger cage.

that is an entire dining room. much like a studio apartment.



02/22/06  07:20pm

 #663043


Pocketracr
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  Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 662693


 Relatively Small and Nasty

see now the pet store has a 2 1/2 to 3 foot caiman in a cage that is like 5 foot by 3 foot.



02/22/06  10:05pm

 #663077


Razeraze
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  Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 662643


 Relatively Small and Nasty

Krokadilyanguy3
my master bedroom is only 10x13. i have my boas cage in it

a queen size bed a weapons cabinet a t.v. and a huge foot locker. with plenty of space to work out or have a few people in playing twister. i will agree bigger is always better but what you are saying is an entire room or prison cell(ususally 2 prisoners to a cell) is not big enough to keep a monitor or small cayman species. i could easily live in my room if given the proper enviorement.



02/22/06  10:16pm

 #663218


Krokadilyanguy3
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  Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 663077


 Relatively Small and Nasty

Raz, Your monitor enclosure looks good, as does your Boid cage but 50 sq feet for an adult Pal. is cutting it. Itís doable sure but I would question why you had the animal as much as I would question someone having a slider in a 15g tank or a betta in a vase. Both is equally doable but how many of you would dispise it? The people who wouldnít would be generally the people who knew close to nothing about both these animals.

I would question someoneís monitor enclosure if they gave it the space as you described as the minimum. Yours look decent, the animal has space to move around in, however, a 50 sq. ft. enclosure would be just enough for the animal to turn. Be kinda hard to vary temps both in water and on land.

You probably could live in your room, but you are still getting more space than the 5í crocodilian, that is suggested to have only 50sq ft of ground space.

Pock, If everyone followed most pet store examples, many animals would probably cease to exist.



02/22/06  11:35pm

 #663574


Razeraze
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  Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 663218


 Relatively Small and Nasty

yeah i am sure crocs need more flat space than monitors because monitors climb and burrow. mine is all over her cage. we were supposed to be in a house this year and the water was going to get a bigger area for when she is 7+ feet. however i got in a bad car accident and have had 3 suregeries on my shoulder. untill i am back to work and get out of this apt. she is going to have to live in our dining room. the one she is in is 44.5 sq feet. the temps go from 140F-76F the water stay 80F.



02/23/06  12:09pm

 #663743


Krokadilyanguy3
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  Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 663574


 Relatively Small and Nasty

Iíve always wanted to get a desert enclosure that ran one side of my living room and came out at about 2í and fill it with a few collards, crotalids and a few other desert dwellers.

But since my living room has too many doors leading to the deck, Iím stuck with smaller versions of habitats for the indoors.





02/23/06  03:14pm

 #663848


Pocketracr
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  Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 663743


 Relatively Small and Nasty

dont worry i dont trust pet stores, i was just mentioning that



02/23/06  04:26pm

 #663892


Razeraze
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  Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 663743


 Relatively Small and Nasty

any tips on de contaminating large peices of wood? or rocks?



02/23/06  04:57pm

 #664227


Krokadilyanguy3
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  Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 663892


 Relatively Small and Nasty

I use a high concentration of salt over water.

Bleach has also been good. Baking rocks would work as well.



02/23/06  07:05pm

 #666224


Younglife
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  Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 664227


 Relatively Small and Nasty

for the question about wood or rocks you can back at like 250 for like 30 mins and it should kill anything on it....just what ive been told to do..chris



02/25/06  08:55am

 #669465


Razeraze
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  Message To: Younglife   In reference to Message Id: 666224


 Relatively Small and Nasty

you canít bake a peice of wood 4+ feet long. nor can you bake a boulder. i have big pets. big pets need big decor. sturdy enough to hold their fat butts. nothing i need for a cage will fit in an oven.



02/27/06  02:53pm
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