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 #2013366


SpawnOfSatan
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 Legal in...

Hey all,
Tried doing a few searches but couldn’t find out Exactly if it was illegal to own a Caiman in my province, i live in Canada, Ontario....is it legal to own one here? and if not, anyone know the consequence for having one? thanks in advance.



05/30/09  01:36am

 #2014564


Robchops
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  Message To: SpawnOfSatan   In reference to Message Id: 2013366


 Legal in...

Unfortunately it is Illegel in most of Ontario if nto all, I can tell you for sure that it is illegal to won one in the GTA and Durham Area, However they can sometimes be found through breeders and distributors still. If you are caught with one then you will have the animal removed immediately and will be faced with a hefty fine. That being said I fo know a few people who have converted their basements into homes for their Caiman and have gotten away with it thus far, but I would recommend against keeping these animals unless you have the room and experience.
Hope this helps,

Rob



06/01/09  01:33pm

 #2014707


SpawnOfSatan
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  Message To: Robchops   In reference to Message Id: 2014564


 Legal in...

Ok, thank you for the response, Much appreciated :)



06/01/09  06:14pm

 #2019805


Mxracer
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  Message To: SpawnOfSatan   In reference to Message Id: 2014707


 Legal in...

As far as I know there not illigal in ontario. Are by laws are really only against venumus snakes. I’ve seen lots in ontario and lots for sale. Where abouts are you located in ontario.



06/10/09  03:29pm

 #2019819


Robchops
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  Message To: Mxracer   In reference to Message Id: 2019805


 Legal in...

Really? In Durham they are definitely illegal, and I am 99% sure that in Toronto and the GTa they are Illegal as well, that being said I know alot of people continue to keep caimans even though it is against the law. Here is the list of prohibited animals in Toronto, like I said durham has the same laws, except in Durham you can’t even keep a boid of any kind.

TORONTO MUNICIPAL CODE
ANIMALS
349-15 2006 - 09 - 27
SCHEDULE A TO CH. 349
PROHIBITED ANIMALS
MAMMALS
Artiodactyla (such as cattle, goats, sheep, pigs)
Canidae (such as coyotes, wolves, foxes, hybrid wolf dogs) except dogs
Chiroptera (bats such as fruit bats, myotis, flying foxes)
Edentates (such as anteaters, sloths, armadillos)
Felidae (such as tigers, leopards, cougars) except cats
Hyaenidae (such as hyaenas)
Lagomorpha (such as hares, pikas) except rabbits
Marsupials (such as kangaroos, opossums, wallabies) except sugar gliders derived from
self-sustaining captive populations
Mustelidae (such as mink, skunks, weasels, otters, badgers) except ferrets
Non-human primates (such as chimpanzees, gorillas, monkeys, lemurs)
Perissodactyla (such as horses, donkeys, jackasses, mules)
Proboscidae (elephants)
Procyonidae (such as coatimundi, cacomistles)
Rodentia (such as porcupines and prairie dogs) except rodents which do not exceed 1,500
grams and are derived from self-sustaining captive populations
Ursidae (bears)
Viverridae (such as mongooses, civets, genets)
BIRDS
Anseriformes (such as ducks, geese, swans, screamers)
Galliformes (such as pheasants, grouse, guineafowls, turkeys)
Struthioniformes (flightless ratites such as ostriches, rheas, cassowaries, emus, kiwis)
REPTILES
Crocodylia (such as alligators, crocodiles, gavials)
All snakes which reach an adult length larger than 3 metres
All lizards which reach an adult length larger than 2 metres
OTHER
All venomous and poisonous animals

Also note the venomous and poisonous animals includes; tarantulas, frogs, scorpions, etc.

This was taken right from the actual website link to the animal services of Toronto.



06/10/09  03:48pm

 #2019979


Mxracer
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  Message To: Robchops   In reference to Message Id: 2019819


 Legal in...

Quote:

REPTILES
Crocodylia (such as alligators, crocodiles, gavials)
All snakes which reach an adult length larger than 3 metres
All lizards which reach an adult length larger than 2 metres



I know people in Toronto that have snakes bigger then 3 meter’s. I also know a guy with a monitor that poses some great size witch is a croc monitor. Also read the thing it says about alligators crocodiles and gavials, wheres it say any thing about caimans unless thats gavials?



06/10/09  08:41pm

 #2019993


Robchops
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  Message To: Mxracer   In reference to Message Id: 2019979


 Legal in...

I am not at all trying to create conflict or argument... I am only stating that the law states you cannot keep them, however that does not mean that people do not break the rules... lol I for one am guilty of doing so, which is why I never release my address or info anywhere... I am in possession of many tarantulas, which due to their venom make them illegal... I also know people with Caimans and they as well do not ever give out their address because it is a large fine owning a caiman... I believe and could be wrong that the Caimans are a member of the crocodylia family, I know it is not listed i the brackets but those are just examples... I also know that in another article could be for Durham they clearly state that caimans are indeed part of the crocodillian family. Ill see if i can dig up where i found that.

Rob



06/10/09  09:14pm

 #2020001


Robchops
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  Message To: Robchops   In reference to Message Id: 2019993


 Legal in...

I found the bylaws for Oshawa, If you think Toronto was bad wait til you see oshawa (basically all of durham) bylaws...

SCHEDULE “A”
TO
CITY OF OSHAWA BY-LAW 11-96
EXOTIC ANIMALS
MAMMALS
Marsupalia: Marsupials or Pouched Mammals
Macropodidae Kangaroos
Didelphidae American Opossums
Dasyruidae Marsupial Wolf, Tasmanian Devil, Tasmanian Tiger,
Pouched Mouse
Notoryctidae Marsupial Mole
Peramelidae Australian Bandicoot (not the Indian Bandicoot, which is
a marsupial)
Caenolestidae Pouched Rat
Phalangeridae Koala, Cuscus (a marsupial monkey), Flying Phalanger
(similar to a flying squirrel)
Phacolomidae Wombat
Carnivora: Carnivorous land Mammals
Canidae Wolf, Coyote, Fox, Wild DOG
Ursidae Bear
Procyonidae Racoon, Panda, Coatimundi
Mustelidae Weasels, Stoat, Wolverine, Marten, Mink, Badger,
Skunk, Otter
Viverridae Mongoose, Civet, Genet
Hyaenidae Hyena
Felidae Ocelot, Lion, Tiger, Leopard, Panther, Lynx, Mountain
Lion, Bobcat
Pinnipedia Seals, Sea Lions, Walruses
Chiroptera Bats
14
- Page 2 of Schedule “A” -
Perissidactyla: Odd-toed hoofed ANIMALS
Equidae Horse, , Zebra, Mule
Tapiridae Tapir
Rhinocerotidae Rhinocerous
Artiodactyla: Even-toed hoofed ANIMALS
Suidae All Pigs, Warthog
Tayassuidae Peccaries
Hippopotamidae Hippopotamus
Camelidae Camel, Dromedaries, Llama, Alpacas
Tragulidae Mouse Deer
Cervidae Deer, Reindeer, Caribou, Moose, Elk, Antelope
Giraffidae Giraffe, Okapi
Antilocapridae Prong-Horned Antelope
Bovidae Sheep, Goat, Bison, Water Buffalo, Musk Ox, Cow
Heifer, Steer Bull
Edentata:
Mymecophagidae Anteaters
Bradypodidae Sloths
Dasypodidae Armadillos
Proboscodea:
Elephantidae Elephants
Primates:
Prosimii Tree Shrews, Lemurs, Lorises, Bush Babies, Tarsiers
Anthropoidea Monkeys, Marmosets, Macaques, Baboons, Mandrills,
Apes, Gibbons, Orangutans, Gorillas, Chimpanzees
15
- Page 3 of Schedule “A” -
REPTILES
Helodermatidae The only other order of venomous non-snakes among the
Reptiles: Gila Monster, Beaded Lizard
Serpentes: Snakes
Boidae Pythons, Boa
Elapidae Coral Snakes, Cobras, Kraits
Hydrophiidae Sea Snakes
Viperidae Vipers, Adders, Rattlesnakes, Water Moccasins,
Fer-de-Lance, Bushmaster
Crocodilia: Crocodiles, Alligators, Caimans, Gavials

Notice in this instance you can see that crocodilia includes Camians and does not use the words "Such As"

Again I am not trying to start an argument or anything I am just trying to give this poster an idea of what he could be getting involved in. (aside from care and attitude)!!


Rob



06/10/09  09:22pm

 #2020071


Robchops
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  Message To: Robchops   In reference to Message Id: 2020001


 Legal in...

Sorry just wanted to add that there are in fact amendmants to the above restricted animals... ill post them right now.

349-2. Keeping of certain animals prohibited.
A. No person shall keep, either on a temporary or permanent basis, any prohibited
animal in the City.
B. For the purposes of Subsection A, prohibited animals are those classes of animals
listed in Schedule A at the end of this chapter.
C. Despite Subsection A, any person who, on the date of the passage of this chapter,
was lawfully keeping any animal listed in Schedule A may keep that animal until
the animal has died or has otherwise been disposed of, provided that the owner has
registered the animal with the Medical Officer of Health by September 1, 1999.


§ 349-3. Exceptions.
Section 349-2 does not apply to:
A. The premises of a City animal centre.
B. The premises of an affiliate or branch of the Ontario Society for the Prevention of
Cruelty to Animals.
C. The premises of an accredited veterinary hospital under the care of a licensed
veterinarian.
D. The premises of the Toronto Zoo.
E. The premises of facilities accredited by the Canadian Association of Zoos and
Aquariums (CAZA).
F. The areas of the City in which professionally produced films are being made by
film professionals and film production companies, and only temporarily during
filming.
G. The areas of the City in which educational programs are being conducted with
animals, if the animals are owned by institutions accredited by CAZA or the
American Zoo and Aquarium Association and only while the educational programs
are actually being conducted, provided that such programs be limited to a maximum
of three days at any one location.
H. Premises registered as research facilities pursuant to the Animals for Research Act,
R.S.O. 1990, c. A.22.
I. The premises of slaughterhouses licensed pursuant to the Meat Inspection Act,
R.S.O. 1990, c. M.5.

Also just to Add i think u are very knowledgeable MX and this post is not trying to discredit your knowledge of reptiles by any means, I am just purely putting this up so people know the bylaws and so that no one has to go through he11 like one of my buddy’s did, He had about 40-50 Ball pythons all different and rare morphs, over $100,000 in pythons. his crazy ex GF called animal control, and they took every snake from him and he rec’d a massive fine, i believe it was maybe $10,000 but could be wrong, anyways I am purely trying to warn people of the consequences. he lived in Oshawa where it was illegal to own ANY BOID which they are finally changing as of next year. (I’m moving to Calgary in two weeks funny enough so i don’t have to worry about these ridiculous laws but that is besides the point.

Cheers,

Rob



06/10/09  11:24pm

 #2192242


Kalwyn
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  Message To: Robchops   In reference to Message Id: 2020071


 Legal in...

So nobody would know where to find one of these things here then eh? lol I have been looking for quite sometime now on both finding one and the laws in ontario



12/11/10  11:30pm

 #2249309


Samzee
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  Message To: SpawnOfSatan   In reference to Message Id: 2013366


 Legal in...

I live in richmond hill man , I got 4 caimans . They are fully legal . No idea what everyone is talking about. You can buy them @ certain pet store around 350 . Not a pet you get unless u have your own house .
Your also allowed to have venomous snake also , just need a class 2 license .
Don’t listen to everything you hear. Before u even think about caiman just know it cost you 200 dollars a month for food once they get to become adults .

Also have a 3meter snake & its not illegal to have him, I got him in a 200 gallon reptile tank.
Please stop talking outta ur *** everyone!

If you need any reptile / snake / caimans/ fish let me know.
Take care. Cheers.



01/02/12  01:12am

 #2283067


Snake master pat
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  Message To: Samzee   In reference to Message Id: 2249309


 Legal in...

.....There are three families of crocodilian, the three families that war existed in one the first post (Gavials, Crocodiles, Alligators) Caimans are in the family alligatoridae. Try to ignore the common names!

cheers

pat



10/17/12  09:42am

 #2298459


Easychris
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  Message To: Samzee   In reference to Message Id: 2249309


 Legal in...

looking for some snapping turtles or american alligator Do you have any of these?



06/13/13  06:13pm


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