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 #2160460


Reptilegirl07
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 New to the whole boa breeding/genetics... moonglow, snow, etc help!

Okay, so I have 2 baby 100% het albinos. They are 2010’s.
I have 1 9 foot female boa
I just put a deposit on two double het snow boas. Dad is an almost all white moonglow and mom is a motley.

I wanted to know what this meant. The guy I’m getting the double het snows said that it means I can produce snows, anery, albinos, and normals. Why wouldn’t I be able to produce moonglows. What’s the difference between snows and moonglows. Do snows have white eyes like moonglows?

If the dad was a moonglow doesn’t it mean the offspring are 100% het moonglow?

I know genetics a bit (co dominant, dominant, recessive) from breeding sugar gliders but this is genetics to the max! LOL HELP!! please :-)

Anyway, i have a few other questions that are easier like how long to wait for my baby boas to reach breeding age, best techniques to breeding, etc.



07/05/10  01:14am

 #2160481


Bciaddict
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  Message To: Reptilegirl07   In reference to Message Id: 2160460


 New to the whole boa breeding/genetics... moonglow, snow, etc help!

Where to start...???

The basics:

A snow is an anery albino.
A moonglow is a hypo snow. It carries the genes for anery, albino, and hypo.

When comparing moonglows to snows visually, you will probably notice that the background on the snow will be a little "grainier" looking...there will probably be more white freckling than on the moonglow. Also the eye of the moonglow does appear to have more white.

Now the genes for anery and albino are recessive. Meaning that both parents have to carry the genes in order to see visual hets.

The hypo and motley genes are co-dominate, meaning that breeding either if them to a normal will produce visual hets of that gene, and normals not het for anything. BUT, if say, mom and dad are motleys (for example...) you could produce a super form of these traits....super motley, super hypo.

Currently though the super motley has yet to live to breeding age...but that’s another story.

Anyways, if you were to breed the two DH snows together you could produce albinos, anerys and snows. If you bred either of them to one of the 100% het albinos you could produce albinos 66% het for snow and normals 66% DH snow.

Now if you bred the moonglow to a normal, you would produce hypos het anery and albino (TH moonglow), and normals het anery and albino (DH snows).

But if you bred the moonglow to one of het albinos, you would produce albinos het anery, sunglows, het anery, hypos het anery and albino, normals het anery and albino.

If you bred the moonglow to a double het snow you could produce moonglows, snows, ghosts het albino, sunglows het anery, hypos het anery and albino, and normals het anery and albino.

You will want to wait a minimum of 3 years until the females are ready to breed. Males can breed at 2 years old. Personally, I wait at least 4 years for my females. I like to weight until their growth has slowed down. A female need s a decent amount of fat stored but she also needs to have good muscle tone.

There are different techniques for breeding...but you’ll have a few years to research that part :)

One thing you’ll want to consider though is that each of the females have the capability of producing 30+ babies per litter. If your goal is to produce a moonglow, what are you plans for the rest of the babies? Don’t assume that you’ll be able to sell them all....you’ll have to be ready to keep all of them.

Amie



07/05/10  07:43am

 #2160513


Reptilegirl07
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  Message To: Bciaddict   In reference to Message Id: 2160481


 New to the whole boa breeding/genetics... moonglow, snow, etc help!

Thanks for your response!

So my next step would be to purchase a Hypo het anery het albino (Hypo DH snow) to breed with the babies I’m getting (the DH snow) to produce moonglows OR even better would be a Super Hypo DH snow, right?

What would be the outcome of breeding a Super Hypo DH snow to a DH snow?



Being that a super motley is yet to reach breeding age it might indicate that it is a lethal gene just like super spider is considered.


One thing I have trouble understanding from a business point of view is, if you have to wait 4 years to breed a baby you’re purchasing, why bother? The price of a moonglow has gone down from 15K to around 2K in about 3 years. If someone buys 2 het moonglow babies and breeds them 4 years down the road, what’s to say they’ll even be able to get 300 per baby at the rate this is going?

I might be breeding this year. I have a 9 ft female normal and I’m looking for a good codominant morph to breed her to. Do you have any suggestions?



07/05/10  12:34pm

 #2160518


Reptilegirl07
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  Message To: Reptilegirl07   In reference to Message Id: 2160513


 New to the whole boa breeding/genetics... moonglow, snow, etc help!

A triple het moonglow means what? What are the three recessive genes that it has?


I am considering changing my "order" from this guy to a DH snow and a TH moonglow.



07/05/10  01:01pm

 #2160572


Bciaddict
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  Message To: Reptilegirl07   In reference to Message Id: 2160513


 New to the whole boa breeding/genetics... moonglow, snow, etc help!

Triple het moonglow carries the hypo, anery, and albinos genes also known as a hypo DH snow. Breeding a super hypo DH snow to a DH snow should yield super hypos DH snow, hypos DH snow, snows, ghosts 66% het albino, albinos 66% het anery, anerys 66% albino, and normals 66% het anery and albino.

Honestly, you’re not going to get rich producing boas, unless you produce something no one’s seen before, but you’ll have to prove that trait to either be genetic (or not) before most people will put any money down on something like that. In that case, after you spend years trying to prove whether the trait is genetically reproducible and how ( recessive, dominate, etc..) you could control the market on that by only selling one or two at a time, until others start flooding the market with this new fangled morph.

Or invest a lot to get the newest, hottest morph, and try to be the first to get as many out on the market as possible. All boa morphs depreciate over time...and you’ll want to consider anything that has the hypo gene....the market is overwhelmed with hypos, and normals among other morphs....

Possible super moonglows have already been produced. I say possible because they look so much like moonglows that it will take breeding to find out if it’s a super or not. I saw a 2010 possible super moonglow priced at $2250. Now if that boa proves out in a few years, it may maintain a little better value...but if it doesn’t prove out, then it will be worth the same as other moonglows in the next few years. By that time even more people will have produced them... Although the odds of producing a moonglow are relatively slim...for some people it’s taken two breeds to produce just one....there will be more available in a few years than there are available now.

Yes, the super motley does seem like it is a lethal mix of genes, but people are still producing them.

What can also make this a hard business, is pregnancy is hard on a female boa, some don’t live through breeding, and some don’t live through gestation...that can be quite heartbreaking after raising them up for some many years.....

The next thing to consider....reptile laws....how might they affect your boa "business" tomorrow, a year from now, four years from now when you’re ready to breed? There are many "big" breeders going out of business because of new legislation and others that don’t find it financially beneficial anymore.

If you want to try and carve a niche for yourself, I wish you good luck. It won’t be easy.

As far boa co-dom morphs you have:

hypo
motley
jaguar (Frank Martin jaguars...not impostors)
jungle (there’s something funky going on with breeding supers though)
Marron Pastels (still pretty rare in US collections)
Roswell
Aztec

That’s all I can come up with at the moment.

Amie




07/05/10  04:37pm

 #2160619


Reptilegirl07
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  Message To: Bciaddict   In reference to Message Id: 2160572


 New to the whole boa breeding/genetics... moonglow, snow, etc help!

Hey thanks!!!

I changed my mind and am getting 2 or 3 DH snows and 1 triple het moonglow from this breeder.

I wasn’t thinking it as a business but more of a hobby that will pay for itself. I was curious how those who do it for a living make money. My only worry is that I won’t be able to make my initial investment back, which so far is under 1000 but will probably be 1300 after I add one more to my collection.

If I can make that back, I’m good. I am mainly doing this so I can see the amazing colors and see what I come up with. I really love the calico boas and the ones I’m getting are from the same parents that produced some calicos which are pretty cool looking.

I’m mostly doing it out of the love of boas. They are so fun to handle and watch!

:-)

Thanks for all of your help.

I’m considering a super hypo motley, a super hypo jungle or a hypo motley or hypo jungle for my adult male I want to buy and that should complete this breeding project for now.



07/05/10  08:24pm

 #2160709


Bciaddict
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  Message To: Reptilegirl07   In reference to Message Id: 2160619


 New to the whole boa breeding/genetics... moonglow, snow, etc help!

Keeping/raising/breeding boas really is just a hobby. Some people make enough to cover their expenses, some don’t.

A lot of the big reputable breeders started out 20-30 years ago...it took them a looooong time to work with their animals, specifically breeding for one trait or another, and working hard to gain a decent reputation as a breeder.

Have you considered how much it will cost for caging, feeding, any vet bills, medications, etc....not counting all the time you’ll invest?

There is much debate as to whether the "Calico" trait is actually genetic. I don’t believe that it’s actually considered to be a genetic morph, more of a random occurrence of certain breedings (like laddertails). Also there is a lot of debate over whether certain boas even are "calicos" or just highly peppered normals. There is also the change that many "calico" boas have been "created" by feeding boas toxic rats.

Good luck finding a super hypo motley. Only two have been created, the infamous "Red Devil" is one. Neither one lived.

Amie



07/06/10  08:28am

 #2160713


Bciaddict
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  Message To: Bciaddict   In reference to Message Id: 2160709


 New to the whole boa breeding/genetics... moonglow, snow, etc help!

..also super jungles have yet to produce a viable litter.

There is a rumor going around that a litter was produced but no evidence of it. A premature litter born earlier this year, all the babies were stillborn.

Amie



07/06/10  08:48am

 #2160771


Reptilegirl07
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  Message To: Bciaddict   In reference to Message Id: 2160713


 New to the whole boa breeding/genetics... moonglow, snow, etc help!

Well, I’ve done a profit analysis for my breeding project and find that I should be able to make my money back pretty quickly if all goes well. There is even some margin for if things don’t go well. I breed my own rabbits and rats and as soon as I complete my rabbits I’ll be having about 40 rabbit babies per month. I am working up my rats as well to where I’ll be having about 1000 rats a month. If you combine the income from the snakes and the income from selling off excess feeders (since it’s all in the same "business") There’s a good chance of coming out ahead.

It’s all about keeping good records and research I think. Also, don’t cut corners with husbandry and care because it will cost more in the long run.

I was intrigued about the Supermarron Boas so I did a little research and found a breeder from Germany who has some available. I might plunk down some money and start a payment plan with them. I haven’t found any breeders selling Supermarron Boas babies in the US so that might be a nich. It’s a bit expensive but I should be able to pay it off relatively quickly.

And thanks for all the info!! It’s nice to talk to someone knowledgeable!!



07/06/10  01:24pm

 #2160777


Bciaddict
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  Message To: Reptilegirl07   In reference to Message Id: 2160771


 New to the whole boa breeding/genetics... moonglow, snow, etc help!

Have you ordered overseas before? It can be quite expensive.

Gary Rushin of Allboas.com had /has Marrons, not sure if he has or has had supers though. There aren’t many in the states.

And I know it might all look good on paper, and if you can hop into the business and make a good chunk of change then that’s great. Just letting you know you’re not the only one to try it. Some people do well some people break even and some fail miserably.

Amie



07/06/10  01:57pm

 #2160875


Rolandslf
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  Message To: Bciaddict   In reference to Message Id: 2160777


 New to the whole boa breeding/genetics... moonglow, snow, etc help!

I breed my snakes to cover annual costs, feeding etc.

If you have for instance got a pair of moonglows at 15k each and wait the prescribed 4 years to breed them. Projected costing works out to about the following per snake over a 4 year period.

Initially - 1 x Pair Moonglows = 30k.
4 years of maintenance - 1 x Pair Moonglows = 24k
Total cost from birth to breeding = 54k.
(Please note that I have factored in overkill in these calculations)

First litter produced, average 35 babies.
Sold at 1.5k each = 52.5k
First 4 years loss = 1.5k
(Please note that I have once again factored in overkill on price drops)

Considering that the next litter would be born towards year 6, the calculation changes

Total cost of 2 years of maintenance - 1 x Pair Moonglows = 30k (overkill on price hikes etc.)

Second Litter produced, average 35 babies
Sold at 1k each = 35k
(Please note that I have once again factored in overkill on price drops)
Profit = 5k

Also take note that I have known most females to drop between 40 and 50 babies from second breeding onwards.

The point I am trying to make is that although a small profit can be made, maybe even bigger than my projected pricing because of inflated costing on my part. I breed for the love of snakes and if a bit of profit has been made it is a case of Jackpot.

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavours going forward.



07/07/10  04:57am

 #2161551


Reptilegirl07
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  Message To: Rolandslf   In reference to Message Id: 2160875


 New to the whole boa breeding/genetics... moonglow, snow, etc help!

Hey, thanks for the price breakdown. Can you tell me what the break down is for the yearly expenses? How does it cost that much to keep them for 4 years? (just curious, i know you said you were over estimating which is what you’re supposed to do!)

that’s about 6000 per year. Thats about 115/week. I’m not sure how you figure? I breed hundreds of feeders and it doesn’t even come near that weekly.

My estimate would be only MAYBE 1000.00-2000 for the 4 years for both snakes. What else are you averaging in that i’m missing?



07/10/10  02:40am

 #2172029


Blackdarkson3244
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  Message To: Bciaddict   In reference to Message Id: 2160481


 Timing

i am sorry i do not know how to make my own question post yet but i have 2 red tail boa’s and live in florida i was wondering the best time to try and breed them



08/28/10  03:51am

 #2184207


Serpentshideaway
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  Message To: Blackdarkson3244   In reference to Message Id: 2172029


 Timing

He/she may be factoring in vet visits housing water electricity used for the heat heat aources if theyre spent out bedding hides bowls caging all the things that need to be replaced in that time period it costs more than what your really thinkin it is but its worth the money spent to keep thes beautiful creatures and to post your own thread towrds the top youll see something that says make a new post or something similar to that



10/28/10  09:29pm

 #2185150


Fairy Frog Mother
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  Message To: Serpentshideaway   In reference to Message Id: 2184207


 Timing

If you have to ask when is the best time to breed them I would NOT recommend doing it. FIRST be sure you do all of your research- that research will answer your question. Do you know their genetics? Are they a full blooded locality, or a mutt? It is much easier to find homes for specific Localities or Morphs than just two snakes you got from a pet store because they are cool, then throw together to breed indiscriminately. I have two Het for Albino. I may breed soon but I want to be sure I can find homes for all of them. I even have the East Bay Vivarium interested in selling the babies.

They do have between 14 and 60 babies (or more). Are you prepared to house each seperately with heat, water, humidity until such time as you find homes for all of them? There is a glut in most areas (Especially Florida and California!) of "Normal" babies. It may be a year or two before you can find homes for them all. Do you have the money for food, bedding, heat, water dishes, vet bills? Its not a cheap venture and IF you are lucky, you will break even- especially with a normal BCI or BCI cross pair.



11/02/10  12:45pm

 #2273262


Fuserock
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  Message To: Bciaddict   In reference to Message Id: 2160481


 New to the whole boa breeding/genetics... moonglow, snow, etc help!

i breed a "supermoonglow" (m) to a normal (f) and i got 23 babies all are the same so they all should be (TH) moonglows new to the breeding world If i’m wrong PLEASE correct me



07/14/12  03:03am


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