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 #1761482


Momof3boys
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 Pinky or no pinky?

I’m new to this sight but since I’ve discovered it I’ve been reading, reading, reading! LOL! One thing I’ve noticed is that there isn’t a consensus on whether or not to feed pinky’s. I never have, and I honestly never thought about it but right now I have a VERY gravid female who is going to hopefully lay eggs soon. She will need extra nourishment when (if!) she ever lays so pinkies seem like they would be a good choice. Why are some people so against feeding pinkies and others say it’s fine?
06/15/08  09:50am

 #1761530


Pamperednewbie
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   Message To: Momof3boys   In reference to Message Id: 1761482


 Pinky or no pinky?

I am NO expert.. but from what I have gathered people are against it becuase they are very fatty.. and Lizards dont need a lot of fat over time. But I think in a time of need, when I lizard needs the extra nourishment it is OK.

Agian... I am NO expert.. this is just what I have gathered from reading.

RP
06/15/08  10:29am

 #1761585


Momof3boys
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   Message To: Pamperednewbie   In reference to Message Id: 1761530


 Pinky or no pinky?

Oh, ok, I thought the people who were against it was because they were hard to digest with the bones or something. So there’s no health risk in feeding a female who has just laid eggs (soon I hope!) a pinky to help her gain weight back? I’m not thinking as part of a regular diet...I just know she’s going to be skinny skinny if she ever lays these eggs...SHE’S HUGE now!

Thanks for the advice!



06/15/08  11:38am

 #1761717


Joshysangel
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   Message To: Momof3boys   In reference to Message Id: 1761585


 Pinky or no pinky?

I’m not an expert on dragons but for Leopard geckos the reason a lot of people are against it is because they are INSECTIVORES and pinkys are not insects. And because they lead to Fatty Liver Disease and their bones are hard to digest. I for one will NEVER feed them pinkies. Remember that if sand leads to impaction so will bones. So there is definitely a health risk with feeding even a gravid female a pinky
06/15/08  02:01pm

 #1761720


Bama Beardies
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   Message To: Momof3boys   In reference to Message Id: 1761585


 Pinky or no pinky?

Some people are stuck on the idea that pinks cause impactions. In 10 years raising dragons and going on 7 years breeding I have never had an impaction problem from pinks. Even with dragons that have eaten 10+ pinks at a time. Not once have we ever found a single mouse bone in excrement. even under our microscope. They are fine for treats for adults and for under weight dragons, just not a good idea as a staple food. -Jay
06/15/08  02:05pm

 #1761758


Bama Beardies
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   Message To: Bama Beardies   In reference to Message Id: 1761720


 Pinky or no pinky?

I should add that anytime you feed a dragon more then one pink it can give the dragon loose stools. It is completely normal and is due to the much higher water content in a pink as compared to insect feeders. It has never caused us a problem, but with the increased water intake the dragon may not drink any water for several days after. -Jay
06/15/08  02:52pm

 #1761773


Joshysangel
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   Message To: Bama Beardies   In reference to Message Id: 1761758


 Pinky or no pinky?

I understand...but then again people say the same thing about sand.
06/15/08  03:07pm

 #1761795


Bama Beardies
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   Message To: Joshysangel   In reference to Message Id: 1761773


 Pinky or no pinky?

Yes they do. We still use sand along with tile. I still get crap from people saying im stupid for keeping adults on sand. Sadly most of them are not speaking from experience but repeating things they have heard for others. 10 years raising dragons and have never had an impaction from one of our animals. All our hatchlings are raised on paper towels only. -Jay
06/15/08  03:29pm

 #1761933


Joshysangel
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   Message To: Bama Beardies   In reference to Message Id: 1761795


 Pinky or no pinky?

At least you keep the juvies on papertowel...as long as they are big enough and you use the right sand..I wont say anything. I just personaly wouldnt do it. Because Im a scaredy cat when it comes to that.
06/15/08  06:07pm

 #1761936


Bricespice
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   Message To: Joshysangel   In reference to Message Id: 1761933


 Pinky or no pinky?

I did not feed a single pinky until they were 1 year old. Now during breeding, my female gets 3 (one a day for 3 days) after she lays her eggs....and 2 a month when shes out of season......My male gets 1 a month, 12 months out of the year.....

I was against them at first, but once I tried them with my dragons, I noticed the growth spurt (my dragons are under their typical weight and length)......It made my female much more active, which we all know is NOT a bad thing.

Someone tried to get me to start my male (who is 15 months old) on fuzzy’s and hoppers....not too sure about that though.....Why feed bigger ones when you have pinkies? Whats your alls opinion on fuzzies and hoppers?
06/15/08  06:16pm

 #1761947


Dragongirl6
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   Message To: Bricespice   In reference to Message Id: 1761936


 Pinky or no pinky?

While I wouldn’t even feed pinkies, fuzzies and hoppers are a definite no and I don’t think you’ll find much argument there. Their bones are more/fully developed and are therefore MUCH harder to digest than even a pinky.

I would stick to wax worms for a gravid female. All the fat without the risk.
06/15/08  06:24pm

 #1762150


Momof3boys
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   Message To: Bama Beardies   In reference to Message Id: 1761795


 Pinky or no pinky?

Thanks Jay, you seem to really know your stuff and you’ve been doing this for 10 years so I will trust your opinion. Our beardies too are on sand and we’ve never had a problem. Once she lays the eggs...if ever...would you say to give her one a week for a few weeks or a couple a week or what? I just went to the store and got topsoil rather than the potting soil I was using in the laybed. Hopefully she’ll like that better...she been in there for two days now and she just sleeps!



06/15/08  09:13pm

 #1762248


Bama Beardies
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   Message To: Momof3boys   In reference to Message Id: 1762150


 Pinky or no pinky?

Do you have a basking light on one side of the lay box? Only our big males get fuzzys for treats with Blaze at over 650g the only one to ever eat hoppers. (which he got into the mouse cage and ate all 6 hoppers!) with no problem. Some people will try to argue over husbandry ect. I just ignore them. Having a dragon or 2 doesn’t make someone an expert lol. Sad when people cant express an opinion without trying to cram it down your throat as holy law. The true thing is no one is perfect and every dragon is different. Im on Aim messenger all the time under the same name as on here for anyone who has questions. -Jay



06/15/08  10:35pm

 #1762353


Momof3boys
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   Message To: Bama Beardies   In reference to Message Id: 1762248


 Pinky or no pinky?

Yes, I do have a basking light on the lay box. I also have have of it covered so she can get out of the heat. I put in the top soil, moistened it well but not muddy and still she sleeps! She’s been in there 30 hours straight with the exeption of giving her a bath. She also ate some super worms after her soak. Put her back in the lay bed and she went back to sleep.
06/16/08  12:48am

 #1762389


Bama Beardies
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   Message To: Momof3boys   In reference to Message Id: 1762353


 Pinky or no pinky?

Id put her back in the cage and offer her food right when the lights go on. Not a lot but some salad and some supers since it seems she likes them and just watch her. It could be she does not like the top soil to dig in. We have found most of our dragons prefer tightly packed damp sand packed with a slope going from about 10 inches of sand on one side, and 18 inches deep on the other side. We make the slope pretty steep and usually scoop out a small starter hole by hand. We pack the sand as tight as we can to prevent cave ins on the female. -Jay
06/16/08  02:11am

 #1763405


Dragongirl6
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   Message To: Bama Beardies   In reference to Message Id: 1762248


 Pinky or no pinky?

Quote:

Some people will try to argue over husbandry ect. I just ignore them. Having a dragon or 2 doesn’t make someone an expert lol.


I am wondering why I continue to be insulted after stating a very simple, non-judgemental opinion? I very clearly said that a hopper has more developed bones than a pinkie which makes them harder to digest. I wasn’t attacking you or shoving anything down anyone’s throat!

By the way, I currently have four dragons (one of my own and three fosters, plus two more this weekend) and work at a rescue where I have taken care of...maybe 300-400 dragons in the last seven years? I have dealt with impactions, bacterial and fungal infections, MBD, deformities, injuries, mutilation due to fighting, and egg binding from rescue dragons. I am NOT some random newbie spouting random information! I spend at least two hours at my vet’s office every week with rescues and work my butt off for them!

Everyone is different and everyone is certainly entitled to his or her own opinion. I never said anything differently! She asked peoples’ opinions about pinkies, and I gave mine. I didn’t tell her she had to listen to me and I didn’t tell anyone that they shouldn’t do whatever works for them. In my experience, bearded dragons are insectivores and thrive perfectly well without live mammals, gravid or not.
06/16/08  10:54pm

 #1765245


Bama Beardies
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   Message To: Dragongirl6   In reference to Message Id: 1763405


 Pinky or no pinky?

over 300 breeding dragons over the last 7 years, and over 6500 hatchling dragons. rescue work is good, but is not the same as breeding experience. you may not realize that you do it but many people have complained to me about how you give advise. partly why my inbox is full of questions because people dont like the attitudes of people on the forum. argue if you wish but it shall fall on deaf ears.
06/18/08  04:38pm

 #1768415


Pammygirl
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   Message To: Bama Beardies   In reference to Message Id: 1765245


 Pinky or no pinky?

Generally the loose substrate is recommended for an experienced keeper. Sand can be used successfully IF you know what you’re doing....your temps are right, diet is right, and you know what to do if you do ened up with an impaction. Loose substrate is NOT recommended for someone who is just starting out.

I also disagree with the pinkies, I would never feed them to ANY of my dragons, male, female, gravid, or not....why choose something risky that has no better nutritional value than something that has little to no risk involved? Hornworms, phoenix worms and wax worms have just as much protein as a pinkie, and they have less fat and no impaction risk.

I’m not trying to continue the fight, but there are others on here, who have been doing this even longer than ten years, who are totally aganst pinkies as well....we all have different information and do things based on personal experience.

Pam
06/21/08  10:51am

 #1769483


Dragongirl6
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   Message To: Pammygirl   In reference to Message Id: 1768415


 Pinky or no pinky?

Thank you Pam. Just because I’ve been doing it for 3 years less doesn’t mean my opinion is invalid, nor does it mean that anyone is required to listen!

I save my pinkies for the snakes.
06/22/08  11:50am

 #1770365


BabsB
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   Message To: Dragongirl6   In reference to Message Id: 1769483


 Pinky or no pinky?

I think its the way that you express your opinion that offends people.I for one stopped posting on the forum because every time somebody asked a question you always attacked them for their set up.A lot of people that have a lot of experience with dragons will get annoyed when somebody does that instead of giving the help that was asked for.Barbara
06/23/08  06:37am

 #1770560


Dragongirl6
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   Message To: BabsB   In reference to Message Id: 1770365


 Pinky or no pinky?

I’m sorry you feel that way, it hasn’t been my intention to do anything of the sort.

I will repost the original question, and my answer. Do you think it’s an unreasonable response?

Quote:

Why are some people so against feeding pinkies and others say it’s fine?



Quote:

While I wouldn’t even feed pinkies, fuzzies and hoppers are a definite no and I don’t think you’ll find much argument there. Their bones are more/fully developed and are therefore MUCH harder to digest than even a pinky.

I would stick to wax worms for a gravid female. All the fat without the risk.
06/23/08  11:43am

 #1770673


Graham
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   Message To: Dragongirl6   In reference to Message Id: 1770560


 Pinky or no pinky?

just wanted to add on to this i got my first dragon at 9 goin on 10 im now 20 im still keeping and breeding thas 10 years experience aswell, bama beardie why do you feel it is needed to enforce your opinion onto people who have less years than you, years experienc is no gauge at all as to how good of a keeper you are, nor is how many hatchlings you have had because lets face it bearded dragons are easy to breed i have 9 gravid females right now so i know this, anyway saying that i do agree with bama on the pinkie issu they can be fed and will be taken readily...however they are in no way needed, it is an old way of fattening up females and giving lots of calcium, also i heard someone say they shouldnt because they are insectevores well there omnivours just like us so that is no reason as to why they shouldnt eat pinks, there is no reall reason as to why not give your dragons pinks other than it is not neccesary anymore. yes i know this is a huge rant but i feel it was needed
06/23/08  01:27pm

 #1773289


Momof3boys
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   Message To: Graham   In reference to Message Id: 1770673


 Pinky or no pinky?

She did it!! My girl, finally, after 10 days of digging, digging, digging, several trips in and out of the lay box, and lots of intense looks at me on her part, laid her eggs!! 28 perfect looking fertile eggs! Jay thinks the calcium was a little low but that they look good! Now the wait begins...this is my, and her, first clutch so we’re very excited! Thanks Jay for all your advise so far...I’ve given her 3 pinkies since she laid on sunday and she ate them without hesitation.






06/25/08  02:33pm

 #1773381


Krusty
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   Message To: Momof3boys   In reference to Message Id: 1773289


 Pinky or no pinky?

Nice nest and nice eggs Momo! Congratulations.

My 2 cents - I breed and keep lots of lizards and have done so for some years. Anytime somebody comes on a forum with a "screaming" attitude and that there is one, and only one, way to do something is not as experienced as they would lead you to believe. You would be surprised by the number of ways to keep lizards and the dietary choices that they all do fine on. While it’s easier to tell a beginner to use tiles and feed some certain diet, that is not the only way to do it. I usually try to avoid the arguments about using deep dirt and feeding certain things, but in all honesty, if you keep dragons hot enough and hydrated enough, they are tough as nails. If anyone thinks that a dragon adult cannot digest bones, they are very misinformed. Dragons can and do eat other lizards, baby birds, neonate mammals and all kinds of things. It’s a crappy, bone-dry cage with few options of (low)temperatures or humidity that cause problems in health, not the prey items. I’m not speaking directly at anyone here, so don’t anyone take offense.
06/25/08  04:19pm

 #1773419


Rudds
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   Message To: Momof3boys   In reference to Message Id: 1761482


 Pinky or no pinky?

Congrats on your first clutch and make sure to take lots of notes and pictures so if you ever have any questions with clutches to come you can refer to your notes. I have fed pinky’s hoppers and fuzzies to the beardies I have that eat them. The best thing to do is ask your vet if you are really concerned. I agree with krusty beardies in the wild eat about anything they can fit in their mouths. Good luck with the eggs and hope to see pics of the new ones. Here are some pics of my last clutch....
06/25/08  04:46pm

 #1773568


Pammygirl
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   Message To: Rudds   In reference to Message Id: 1773419


 Pinky or no pinky?

Very good looking eggs, mama!! Congratulations!! Keep a close eye on your humidity levels and try to leave them alone as much as you can. I know it’s hard, lol, I wanted to look in the incubator every single day when I had my first clutch!! Now the hard part, waiting 60 days for the little suckers to pop out of the eggs!! :) Congrats!!!

Pam
06/25/08  07:31pm

 #1773618


Momof3boys
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   Message To: Pammygirl   In reference to Message Id: 1773568


 Pinky or no pinky?

Thanks for the advice Rudd, I have been writing things down. Don’t worry, you’ll all be bomb barded with photos once they arrive! I can’t believe how exciting it is!! I’ve had three kids and the anticipation for these little guys isn’t the same, but it’s up there!

Thanks Pam...my humidity is a bit of an issue right now. My eggs are dry but there is a very fine condensation on the inside of the egg container. It’s a homemade incubator and if I pour out some of the water in the bottom, I loose the temp....and if I have enough water to keep the temp up, I get condensation. I have a hova bator on order but it will be a couple weeks. So far they’re plump and looking good! And yes...I have to restrain myself not to look in everyday...ok, that’s a lie, I have looked in everyday, lol. I haven’t looked today yet but I’m going to ...just to keep an eye on the humidity. Thanks guys!



06/25/08  08:21pm

 #1773905


Dragongirl6
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   Message To: Momof3boys   In reference to Message Id: 1773618


 Pinky or no pinky?

Quote:

Anytime somebody comes on a forum with a "screaming" attitude and that there is one, and only one, way to do something is not as experienced as they would lead you to believe.


Was this directed towards me?

Again, I did not come with a "screaming attitude". I very calmly stated my opinion in answer to the question, and never once told her she had to follow my advice. I simply shared my experience and hopefully gave her both sides of the issue so that she can make her OWN decision.

I am the first to say there are many ways to do anything, and there are many right ways to do anything, as long as you educate yourself. This is what I thought she was trying to do, clearly I am not welcome to share my thoughts if they are different from yours.

Again, I calmly stated:

Quote:

While I wouldn’t even feed pinkies, fuzzies and hoppers are a definite no and I don’t think you’ll find much argument there. Their bones are more/fully developed and are therefore MUCH harder to digest than even a pinky.

I would stick to wax worms for a gravid female. All the fat without the risk.



I’m sorry everyone took this the wrong way and blew it out of proportion, and I regret that I am still being attacked for my calm response.
06/26/08  12:59am

 #1774577


Graham
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   Message To: Dragongirl6   In reference to Message Id: 1773905


 Pinky or no pinky?

in all fairness ne1 that took that the wrong way is a fool, also id say it is a indeed a no no to feed fuzzies as like u said there bones are more developed i mean come on pick a pinkie up u can litterally crush there head with ur fingers with very little force, they dont really have propper bones at that age there more like cartilage s very very soft
06/26/08  04:23pm

 #1774647


Bama Beardies
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   Message To: Graham   In reference to Message Id: 1774577


 Pinky or no pinky?

obviously you’ve never tried that to a fuzzy. minimal force with crush a fuzzies skull between your fingers. If you seriously think they cant digest bone, you are sadly mistaken and grossly misinformed. I never pushed anything on anyone, i simply said check your information before telling people how bad you think they are. And that wasnt directed at you at all, so why dont you do some real research before acting like you know it all.. cause dude honestly you come across as a total joke. the only fool on this thread that i see is you
06/26/08  05:11pm
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