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Brembo LadyOhh LadyOhh Momofsix Momofsix Rabernet Brembo Rudds Brembo |
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Brembo View Profile |
To all the breeder experts here, questions
I got several questions that give me quite a quandry at times and maybe you can explain why this is; 1) Tank temps - One group says temps should be 80 for the cool side (no lower than 75) and 90 for the warm, while the other group says 80 for the cool side and 95 for the warm. Which is best? 2) If you’re going to use a rack and tubs, how do you heat these poperly? Wouldn’t a UTH damage the tub? I read a site where the breeder uses a room heater to heat the area between the racks (racks are on the rooms sides I guess) and lets the back side where the hide is be cool. Then on another site a breeder says that if you use racks, don’t use tubs so you can use uth’s. And yet another breeder says not to use racks of any sort as this is bad for breeding balls. 3) Some breeders say you need light, some say you don’t. In my case I have to use a light if the snake is going to get any at all, but a breeder on a site says that using a light is bad because it dries out the snake - but my humidity is 55-60%. 4) Humidity... While we’re on it, why do some breeders say 50% is fine, others say you need as much as 70%. I am refering to people who profit by the trade, who espouse this stuff on their sites as if it came down from God Almighty. I would laugh it off if not for the fact that I get further confused by how many times this is printed in literature. Yeah I want to breed snakes and will pruchase stock for that later, but this is mainly my pet. It matters that it and they are healthy and thrive! So why the variances and contradictions? How am I supposed to keep and breed healthy specimens if the information I get is erroneous, but I go with it because Jill Sutheby who breeds morphs and has been doing it for 30 years successfully says its the way to go and everyone bows down at her alter. (Not a real person, just an example) I know many of you have asked the same questions, what was the answer? How did you get a jump into the sea of mixed messages and come out without sinking? Let me give you a personal example; Going by what I had been told by others on another forum, I proceeded to add more heat. However going by what the vet told me, I decided to monitor my little girls behavior closely. Turns out, she does NOT like heat. She prefers her areas roughly 5-10 degrees cooler. They (the "experts" at the other forum, including the breeder that hosts it) tell me I need 90-95 in the backing spot, and she avoided that area for days. I drop out all uth’s but one, turn off the low heat lamp, temp drops to 80-85 (83.7 avg) and she regularly goes into that warm side’s hide and rests for about 2 hours, then back to her cool hide (74.5 avg temp) for about 5-6 hours. Last night she ate her first mouse since coming home (she was letting us know what she wanted and even WHERE she wanted it, can you believe that?) and made quite a mess for us this morning sometime. So why does she like it cooler... I figure its like people; we each like what we like. Since this is my wife’s snake, there’s a lot of concern over whether we’re doing the right thing or not. My boa doesn’t really require the same amount of tedious effort. She just grows, eats, poops, and allows me to hold her while she watches TV or eyes the cats (she’s named them "Hors" and "D’oeuvre"). Can I possibly get more baffled? I hope not. |
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| 08/19/08 01:47pm |
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LadyOhh View Profile |
Message To: Brembo In reference to Message Id: 1836107 To all the breeder experts here, questions
I say the lowest ambient temps can be around 75, and the hot spot no more than 90. Bottom line is this: If you can touch the hot spot and jerk your hand back in pain, its absolutely too hot. I use racks, and there is UTH (heat tape or heat rope) underneath it. If temps are controlled, there is no issue with damaging the tubs at all. Its when the temps get out of control that the problems arise. You can use a room heater, however. I just don’t. As for racks being bad... No way. I don’t use any additional light at all.. Natural light in the day, and artificial light when I need to be in the room. If the light dries out the snake, you need to get a different light ASAP!!! Humidity depends on your environment and situation. In my case, I live in Southern California, and there is very little humidity. Mine is generally at 50%, but if need be (in cases of bad sheds, health issues) it can be and should be bumped up. 70% overall constantly is not a good idea as it can lead to scale rot and other health issues. Contraditions and variances depend on what people have and what works for them. It is a science, and an art... and some people do things differently. If you see your snake doing something, then go with it and experiment. Do not, however, experiment to the detriment of the health of your snake. As for your example, I would have not done that... Snakes are thermoregulators, and if she chose to stay on the cool side, let her! She needs to have a gradient and will choose to move where she does on her own accord. Depending on what you know to be true (could the hot spot have been hotter than you think???? Do you have a temp gun that is reliable??) you can adjust accordingly. If it continues to work that way, keep it that way... But don’t preach it as the gospel. Generalities abound, and unfortunately some people put their biases into their husbandry practices.. Basically what needs to be said is that you need to take EVERYTHING you read, see and hear with a grain of salt. Know what is best for your snake by trying different things, and sticking with what works for you. |
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| 08/19/08 02:04pm |
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LadyOhh View Profile |
Message To: Brembo In reference to Message Id: 1836107 To all the breeder experts here, questions
People can say all that they want to say... But who are they to tell you? People spout things they hear without having any experience in it whatsoever. Do they really know what they are doing??? Again, grain of salt.... |
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| 08/19/08 02:08pm |
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Momofsix View Profile |
Message To: Brembo In reference to Message Id: 1836107 To all the breeder experts here, questions
All I can say is that a lot of people have a lot of different things to say. Just like with kids...they don’t come with a manual. Basically, we have had 2 BP’s and they both had completely different preferences. Thus you can take any advice but do so with a grain of salt. Know your snakes preferences and work accordingly. We all have questions, even those who have been in the field for years. Believe me, there are days (like today) my girl has completely confused me with what she is doing and I have to post questions and look at all the suggestions and do what I think is in my girls best interest. This probably doesn’t help much but I would feel safe to say that each one is different and just like us, they have likes and dislikes. An example: Vent loved plants in habitat and even a mirror, Claira hates plants but likes mirrors. I put plants in her habitat she won’t come out of hide. Take plants out of Vent’s habitat and he gets spastic. To each their own! Live and learn and know everyone has an opinion! Best of luck! |
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| 08/19/08 02:12pm |
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Momofsix View Profile |
Message To: LadyOhh In reference to Message Id: 1836122 To all the breeder experts here, questions
Quote: Basically what needs to be said is that you need to take EVERYTHING you read, see and hear with a grain of salt. Know what is best for your snake by trying different things, and sticking with what works for you.
We are thinking alike! Ha Ha Must have been typing at same time! Hey, thanks for your help earlier! |
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| 08/19/08 02:16pm |
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Rabernet View Profile |
Message To: LadyOhh In reference to Message Id: 1836129 To all the breeder experts here, questions
With that said, I keep my animals a basking spot of about 90-92 degrees and I don’t let the cool side drop below 75. I don’t provide supplemental lighting, the natural day/nigh cycles are fine. I also don’t cool my animals before breeding. This is just a brief summary of how I do it, definitely not detailed, and definitely not the only way to do it. Find breeders that you trust to mentor you. I basically picked the brains of some very wonderful breeders for YEARS before I bred my first snakes. I took a little from each one (what made the most sense to me) and did what worked best for me. |
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| 08/19/08 02:16pm |
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Brembo View Profile |
Message To: LadyOhh In reference to Message Id: 1836122 To all the breeder experts here, questions
Quote: As for your example, I would have not done that... Snakes are thermoregulators, and if she chose to stay on the cool side, let her! She needs to have a gradient and will choose to move where she does on her own accord. Depending on what you know to be true (could the hot spot have been hotter than you think???? Do you have a temp gun that is reliable??) you can adjust accordingly. If it continues to work that way, keep it that way... But don’t preach it as the gospel.
Ok... I have digital therms with probes, one for the cool side at the hide, and the other for the warm side basking spot. For a week she would not approach the warm side. She did only at first, but after that she never ventured out of her hide except to get a drink and even then she’d "back up" and pull her head and neck back into it. I was reading, and asking about temps, and someone suggested that 90 might be too hot for her - got slammed by EVERYONE on that forum for even suggesting such a thing (Oh the blasphemy!) - and I thought "Well, why not see what she does?" Wife and I talked, and we dropped out the 2 uth’s leaving the one on the bottom. She came out in about an hour, peering around and slightly moving towards the basking zone with its hide. I slowly reached over and turned out the low heat lamp, while leaving the light on (its a combo unit, light and heat) and within a few minutes the temp had fallen to roughly 83 and she then moved quickly into the hide (the probe is in the hide about 1" above the substrate) and sat there with her head poking out of the side hole about 1". Then she did something unusual. She would stick out her head and poke the substrate with her nose (its pebble), then pull her head back in and lay it on the hole’s ledge again. She did this a second time and my wife said, "I think she’s telling you she wants a mouse, and where to put it!". We laughed, but I went and thawed one out. It had been almost a week, so why not. Once it was thawed, I put on my glove to block my heat (I lost my tongs- need another pair now, but neither snake will bite through the gloves so I can deal with it for a month) and dangled the mouse right where she had rubbed a third time while I was thawing it. Well... She had trained us. Her eyes went wide open, she flicked her tongue and even though the mouse was just laying there, she hit it. About 5 minutes later she had it down. She went and drank some water, then went back to the warm hide and nosed the ground again. I said it must be just coincidence, she must not be hungry, but it was as if she heard me. I know this is bizarre stuff, but she looked right through the glass and stared at me, then slithered to her cool hide. It was like I had offended her. I have looked at her twice today and if she see’s me, she turns her head away and shows me her butt. Stuck her rear up to the glass, up on it about 1.5", and sat there. I laughed and joked, "Yep, that’s a woman!" I mean really, what DO we know about anything? I know that when I talk to my boa she hears me because she looks at me from across the room. I know that my old burmese would come to me when I called to her. She’d leave the tank and come to right where I was and lay in my lap. I had to open the tank for her to do this, but she’d get up on the edge to look around and I could call to her and she’d slither right to me (freaked my first wife out every time). Anyway. Seems we all agree that the reality is that whatever we read or hear we need to qualify with our own pets and experiences. This is why its so hard to deal with balls when you first get one because everone tells you something different. I hope any new owners never experience the down side and can navigate what everyone says well enough to be successful. I disagree in the view that everyone else is a competitor (as stated elsewhere). I think of all of you who want to breed pythons or boas, or anything, as home conservastionists and enthusiasts. Without the interest, who knows where any of this would be. And if we don’t protect our interest, who will? Thank you for the input. I appreciate it. |
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| 08/19/08 03:56pm |
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Rudds View Profile |
Message To: Brembo In reference to Message Id: 1836231 To all the breeder experts here, questions
Good luck with whatever you decided to do! |
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| 08/19/08 04:54pm |
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Brembo View Profile |
Message To: Rudds In reference to Message Id: 1836283 To all the breeder experts here, questions
Right now she’s laying up on the side of the hide and the glass, over in the back. She’s still in the basking spot. She still won’t look at me, prefering to give me her rump if I stare too long. Females. Psshhh... |
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| 08/19/08 06:15pm |
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