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Deadroses View Profile |
Found snake
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| 08/28/09 10:45am |
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Deadroses View Profile |
Message To: Deadroses In reference to Message Id: 2064596 Found snake
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| 08/28/09 10:53am |
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Fj1482 View Profile |
Message To: Deadroses In reference to Message Id: 2064599 Found snake
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| 08/28/09 11:12am |
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Thejaxonator View Profile |
Message To: Fj1482 In reference to Message Id: 2064607 Found snake
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| 08/28/09 05:56pm |
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Cornsnake chris View Profile |
Message To: Thejaxonator In reference to Message Id: 2064759 Found snake
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| 08/29/09 10:58am |
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Snakehunter64 View Profile |
Message To: Deadroses In reference to Message Id: 2064596 Found snake
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| 08/29/09 11:53am |
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Concolor1 View Profile |
Message To: Snakehunter64 In reference to Message Id: 2065021 A Great Plains Rat Snake Is Also Possible...
Somebody’s escapee? I know I had two hatchlings that slipped out of their cages, and I’m sure others have had the same trouble . . . BTW, because of their relative scarcity and commercial value, Great Plains Rat Snakes are protected here (one of the few Utah laws that aren’t generally absurd). Racers--coluber constrictor mormon-- aren’t. Whoops, some authorities have elevated the local racer population to full species status . . . |
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| 08/29/09 01:05pm |
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Amphibiandude View Profile |
Message To: Concolor1 In reference to Message Id: 2065045 A Great Plains Rat Snake Is Also Possible...
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| 08/30/09 08:10am |
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Dane_Zoo View Profile |
Message To: Amphibiandude In reference to Message Id: 2065374 A Great Plains Rat Snake Is Also Possible...
Quote: I’m looking at the way it’s wrapping around his finger and thinking constrictor . . .
how could you even make an assumption like that? all kinds snakes will wrap themselves around your finger/hands/wrists/whatever to keep from falling its a baby racer fersure |
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| 08/30/09 11:00am |
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Gottee guy View Profile |
Message To: Dane_Zoo In reference to Message Id: 2065408 A Great Plains Rat Snake Is Also Possible...
You can’t assume it’s a constrictor JUST because of that fact. But from my experiences, not even hatcling racers wrap around you for stability. They just want to be let go and run. |
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| 08/30/09 02:04pm |
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Concolor1 View Profile |
Message To: Gottee guy In reference to Message Id: 2065457 Well, a Better Picture Might Help . . .
I would like to see a good close up of its head, since a GPR has a pattern similar to a corn snake (they were considered ssp. of elaphe guttala forty years ago when I was studying this stuff, and I’m not "married" to any single hypothesis. If "Deadroses" is down Cedar City or Moab way, then e. emoryi is a possibility. So, too, is some variety of escaped hatchling (I note he found it in his jr. high, and yes, if it’s in one of the newer subdivisions with lots of kids, then a western racer is overwhelmingly likely). It was a long time ago that I saw the only baby racer I saw, and my memory is pretty dim; I’ve got a brood of baby corn snakes right now, though, and they resemble the photo to some extent . . . A baby racer would be a poor choice as a pet; a young Great Plains rat snake would be illegal here if W/C, but an escaped hatchling would be just fine and keeping it would be a good idea since it’s a sound principle of ecology not to introduce alien species into new environments. |
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| 08/30/09 02:47pm |
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Snakehunter64 View Profile |
Message To: Deadroses In reference to Message Id: 2064596 Found snake
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| 08/30/09 03:16pm |
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Dane_Zoo View Profile |
Message To: Concolor1 In reference to Message Id: 2065472 Well, a Better Picture Might Help . . .
I dont ever remember typing in capitols or emphasizing any of my words |
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| 08/31/09 12:48am |
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Concolor1 View Profile |
Message To: Dane_Zoo In reference to Message Id: 2065687 Sigh . . .
The first is a little vocabulary term we philosophers and educators refer to as a "strawman" (I’m a former English teacher, there, bub, and a real mean one. I used to have a license to correct educational deficiencies, and yours are fairly obvious). A "strawman" tactic consists of misrepresenting an opponent’s position in a debate and then, since straw is extremely flammable stuff, they "set fire" to the that "position" (metaphorically speaking, of course) and enjoy getting kudos from everyone who’s noticed the flames and the attendant drama . . . Now pay attention, Dane m’boy; this next part is a bit complicated, and I reserve the right to give you an exam on it down the road . . . Here, the strawman is the charge I made an "assumption" the snake hatchling in question is a constrictor; in point of fact, I was just offering that up as one suggestion... Educated individuals with open minds do understand the difference between a suggestion and an assumption . . . And I note that "Gottee guy" does mention that, in his experience, not even racer hatchlings wrap themselves around a finger the way the snake in the photo is doing . . . That squares with what I remember as well, which is what led my thinking in the direction it took . . . I certainly allow, however, for others to have their say if their experiences differ from mine . . . And nowhere did I suggest the snake wasn’t a racer, only that the possibility exists that may be the case . . . And I’ll repeat my request for a better photo, something on the order of this one . . .
Those are corn snakes, BTW. I know because I hatched them myself. And corn snakes are constrictors and a variety of rat snake . . . Same as the Great Plains Rat Snake . . . Finally, how about a little consideration and some attention to spelling instead of that "rebellious adolescent" nonsense (such as no apostrophes, and it’s "typing in capital letters"; the "capitol" is a reference to that dome-shaped building in Washington; we’ve got one here in Utah, too, and I think you do as well in Madison)? I’m not talking about stray typos, either, but the overall attitude; it’s not so much that it’s offensive to some of us--which it is to many--as it absolutely destroys your own credibility (Here in Utah, the "homeschooled" fanatic crowd is fond of using it to "stand out," but mostly it makes them look stupid). Yes, spelling and grammar rules in English look ridiculous and illogical at first glance, but there’s actually a rich and interesting history behind most of them which I found worthwhile to learn about (particularly when the stupid science teachers here were only lukewarm--at best--on the subject of evolution, which the study of reptiles offers overwhelming evidence in favor of). Now I suggest you quit bringing dull pocket knives to gunfights, okay? |
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| 08/31/09 04:42pm |
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Concolor1 View Profile |
Message To: Concolor1 In reference to Message Id: 2065926 And In An Admittedly Unscientific...
However, on the way home, there was something my subconscious had noticed about those baby racers (adults, too). Here, see if you saw it, too . . . http://www.humboldtherps.com/images/2001_est_bnormanpic-Racer_juvenile_1b_Tish_Tang_Road-Hoopa_E_Humboldt_.jpeg Link http://www.humboldtherps.com/images/20090602HCHSimage_W._Yellow-bellied_Racer_GPS-DOLASON-COLUBER-01HU_7_.JPG Link http://www.herpjournal.com/2004/Kansas_2/05_19_04/fullsize/05_19_04_38.jpg Link http://www.herpjournal.com/2004/Kansas_2/05_19_04/fullsize/05_19_04_37.jpg Link http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?query_src=photos_fauna_com-Reptile&enlarge=0000+0000+0904+0026 Link http://www.fototime.com/%7b43EC368B-9EAB-4A34-B08B-9A666169F890%7d/picture.JPG Link http://www.flickr.com/photos/34153765@N04/3593898614/ Link Okay, anybody not up to speed? All of these are of racers of various ages being held in human hands, and in none of them are they "wrapped around" the handlers’ fingers the way they are in the photo . . . And far be it from me to withhold "scientific data" in support of a proposed hypothesis. I did find this one . . . http://www.snakeman1982.com/images/w01evergladesracerandme.jpg Link I think, though, if you look closely, it’s pretty clear even this one is being held and its tail is hanging loosely . . . I did run across a bit of an interesting claim about the Western Yellow-bellied racer on one website (from calpoly.edu, no less). The statement was made, "Unlike most racers, this species is a constrictor." Shucks, it must be true, I read it on the Internet . . . 
Okay, the "appropriate" way to challenge something like this is to refer to something like that as "remarkable" and ask for supporting evidence. Hollering "BS" in all of its variations is generally seen as rude . . . Anyway, Deadroses, if you’re in the Salt Lake Valley, feel free to PM me, and I would be honored to look at your snake and possibly identify it. |
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| 08/31/09 10:09pm |
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Zach01313 View Profile |
Message To: Concolor1 In reference to Message Id: 2066056 And In An Admittedly Unscientific...
and he too wraped around my hand... |
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| 09/01/09 02:03pm |
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Concolor1 View Profile |
Message To: Zach01313 In reference to Message Id: 2066294 Re: Black Racer
This picture of yours is the one that had me holding onto my "Eastern Coachwhip" ideas (but not to the point of being anal about it; I’m always open-minded and willing to change in the event adequate evidence is introduced). Link It was that "extra-long" length that I find just slightly more characteristic of coachwhips and whipsnakes that swayed me. That, and there was the coloration that didn’t appear that dark . . . Anyway, the racers in your neck of the woods are black in adulthood, and I’ve never seen either an adult or a juvenile; here, though--and Deadroses is also in Utah--they run a sort of olive to gray with a bit of blue or green that grades into the yellow on the belly. Juveniles are a prominently marked, however, which is the source of the identification problem... It is interesting, though, that you claim your snake did wrap around you. When I was young, there were really only two varieties of snakes that were common around here, racers and gopher snakes (well, and garter snakes, but those were always pretty smelly). It was handling numbers of both of these that led me to note a difference between a constrictor--the gopher--and a non-constrictor--the racer . . . Gophers would regularly put a "choke hold" on an arm or hand, and even today all my snakes--all of them constrictors--do the same thing. |
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| 09/01/09 04:47pm |
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Zach01313 View Profile |
Message To: Concolor1 In reference to Message Id: 2066366 Re: Black Racer
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| 09/01/09 07:33pm |
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Dane_Zoo View Profile |
Message To: Zach01313 In reference to Message Id: 2066453 Re: Black Racer
oh no!!!!! i dont type perfect on an internet forum, who cares, half the kids on here dont know how to spell anyways I’ve had blue racers in WI wrap themselves slightly around my hand, this was a rather docile individual though |
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| 09/02/09 03:27pm |
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Dane_Zoo View Profile |
Message To: Dane_Zoo In reference to Message Id: 2066731 Re: Black Racer
you dont need good grammar and punctuation to make a living |
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| 09/02/09 03:33pm |
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Jbreddawg View Profile |
Message To: Dane_Zoo In reference to Message Id: 2066734 Re: Black Racer
Quote: you dont need good grammar and punctuation to make a living
Of course you don’t. McDonald’s is always hiring. And I hear they even raised minimum wage ! |
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| 09/02/09 09:08pm |
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Jynxer50 View Profile |
Message To: Jbreddawg In reference to Message Id: 2066885 Re: Black Racer
jake |
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| 09/05/09 10:23pm |
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Dane_Zoo View Profile |
Message To: Jynxer50 In reference to Message Id: 2068203 Re: Black Racer
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| 09/05/09 10:41pm |
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Concolor1 View Profile |
Message To: Jynxer50 In reference to Message Id: 2068203 Re: I Got a Kick Out of That . . .
Lessee, I counted "waist" instead of "waste"; "grammer" instead of "grammar"; "perfect" instead of "perfectly" and a few others in that practiced put-down . . . We’re supposed to accept his credibility on the subject of snakes, however, and the fact that "half the kids on the Internet can’t spell" as a justification for the assault on our sensibilities and the ever-so-slightly dishonest, "Who cares?" If you didn’t care there, D-Z (I need to be careful how I pronounce that one), why did you bother to reply? And meanwhile he ducks my suggestions that perhaps one shouldn’t make snap judgments on the identity of the snake in question (and anyone who thinks I’m certain on that one hasn’t read what I said). Science and scientific inquiry consists of keeping an open mind; my goal here is educational, in both fields, science and language, because I do care . . . |
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| 09/06/09 03:02am |
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Fairy Frog Mother View Profile |
Message To: Concolor1 In reference to Message Id: 2068280 Re: I Got a Kick Out of That . . .
At least the kids are trying to communicate. I make many errors in my writing and my spelling is atrocious. Yes, it would be nice if they put enough effort into it so we can all understand what the comment or question is I agree, but... Wow...why did this go from "What kind of snake is this" to lessons in grammatical ineptitude? (Its a rhetorical question. If you don’t know what that means...google it..or *gasp* get a dictionary.) *takes away all the bowls of crankios, gives everyone a brownie and plays soothing music whilst dimming the lights* Hmm, you know, it could be fun to post every post I make for the next two weeks in Shadow Clan Orcish. *snickers* Naw. Ill be nice. Maybe. |
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| 09/08/09 11:52am |
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TheRedTail View Profile |
Message To: Fairy Frog Mother In reference to Message Id: 2069272 Re: I Got a Kick Out of That . . .
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| 09/08/09 03:39pm |
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TheRedTail View Profile |
Message To: TheRedTail In reference to Message Id: 2069352 Re: I Got a Kick Out of That . . .
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| 09/08/09 03:41pm |
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Jynxer50 View Profile |
Message To: TheRedTail In reference to Message Id: 2069353 Re: I Got a Kick Out of That . . .
Jake |
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| 09/14/09 10:31pm |
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Concolor1 View Profile |
Message To: Jynxer50 In reference to Message Id: 2071852 I Had a Number of Agendas . . .
My life--which has had at least its share of twists, turns, and ups and downs--has been measurably richer because of writing as a process of growth, self-discovery, and humility. Right now connecting with others is paramount to me, particularly on scientific and other important subjects involving politics, history, and the environment; if the message doesn’t get through, the connection is lost. And I see a real "dumbing down" of this country in areas I believe may well remove us from the forefront of human advances and progress, a position we have enjoyed for upwards of a century or more. Communicating something clearly also affords a measure of respect to one’s intended audience. The one who gets hurt the most with hasty or "too cool" approaches are those who practice and defend such lazy practices. Credibility depends on clarity, and few deep understandings are acquired without effort. Finally, anyone wanting to pursue a career in any of the sciences is going to need to have an open mind, and I purposely used tactics geared toward encouraging that end (even if I inflicted some pain). But yeah, the kids back in the drug rehab where I used to teach thought I was tough, too. I hope it helped at least a few of them . . . |
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| 09/15/09 02:38am |
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TheRedTail View Profile |
Message To: Concolor1 In reference to Message Id: 2071949 I Had a Number of Agendas . . .
I’m sorry that was my cousin i let him on my comp. and this was still on and yea. |
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| 09/16/09 10:49pm |
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